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  #11  
Old 04-17-2016
Debbie.Grey Debbie.Grey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkane View Post
Anybody tell me the pin-out for the coach end of the 50 A. cord (the 7764 connector)? The replacement plug is marked "X-Y-Z-Green" and "Z" is opposite to the outer ground tab.
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Originally Posted by GreenBird View Post
Wow - thought this was an easy one - ended up taking a connector apart to make sure I didn't tell you wrong
X = 120V hot, red or black wire
Y = 120V hot, red or black wire
Z = neutral, white wire
G = ground, green wire
Usually neutral is labeled "W" or marked white or a silver colored terminal
Not always with this one
Same question, redux. Arrow-Hart Hart-Lock plug. No model number. Holes labeled "X", "Y", and "GR or Z"
All the terminals are copper with "white" screws.


Red/black to X/Z, check. But "green/ground" "OR" "Z" ... ...
I know what's throwing me: does this plug not distinguish between neutral and ground?

[Man, I have got to learn to speak electricity.... Somebody please reassure me which wire goes where?]
[And yes, I read the stickies before deciding I was still confused.]
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Debbie Huffman Grey
Finally full-timing
Kids in Houston, Texas
1985 PT-40 "Festina Lente"
1993 Toyota Pickup "Phoenix"
FMCA 424082 VB 1639 SKP 112690

Last edited by Debbie.Grey; 04-17-2016 at 02:09 PM. Reason: add sentence
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  #12  
Old 04-17-2016
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GreenBird GreenBird is offline
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Man this thing belongs in a museum. It was what they had at the time.

So - looking at your photo -

The top uninsulated lug is surely ground which is bonded to the connector shell (green wire)

X & Y are clearly marked and are the hot leads (red & black wires)

The last terminal whose label I can't make out must be neutral by process of elimination (white wire)

This assumes of course that the other end is wired correctly
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Leonard Campbell
Trufant, MI
1986 PT40
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  #13  
Old 07-29-2016
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Movin' On Movin' On is offline
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Default Bird Wiring For '94 Vintage Power Cords And Power Selection Relays

Attached is a portion of the “94_Elect_Sys.pdf” file that I downloaded from WOG for a ’94 BB. It shows the 50-amp service, the 30-amp service, and two relays that control what power sources are routed to the change-over switch. The ’94 coach has a fixed 50-amp cable and only one connector for the 30-amp service. (Other coaches have two 30-amp connectors as well as the 50-amp connector.)

I tried to figure out how the relays control the AC power before I checked out the Bird with a meter. The relay circuit should select only the 50-amp service or both the 50-amp service and the 30-amp service when both are plugged in. The power for both services should be from separate 30-amp services. (The 50-amp cable would have a 50-to-30-amp adaptor as implied in the ’94 User Manual. I do not see the sense in using a 50-amp service along with the 30-amp service.)

I interpreted the diagram as showing that the coil of the left relay is pulled-in when power is applied to the 50-amp service. The same applies for the right relay coil, it pulls in when power is applied to the 30-amp service. When the 50-amp service alone has power, then the left relay alone is pulled in. In this condition it appears that the RED leg from the 50-amp service is not connected to anything since it is routed only to a contact on the right relay, which is not pulled in. This does not make sense to me and I would like to have my circuit description reviewed to find any errors.

The diagram makes sense to me if the RED leg contact on the right relay were normally closed rather than normally open. Then the red leg would be routed from the right relay, through the left relay, to the red leg on the cable going to the Automatic Change-over switch and also leg-two of the polarity indicator. Since I have not found the relays I do not know if they have a normally closed connection available. Does anyone know where to find the relays?

If 30-amp power is connected to both the 50-amp service and the 30-amp service then the RED leg connected to the contact on the right relay would be opened (assuming the normally closed contact) because the right relay would be pulled in. The BLACK leg from the 30-amp service would be routed to the RED leg of the cable going to the Automatic Change-over switch instead of the RED leg from the 50-amp service. The BLACK leg from the 50-amp service (30 amp power) would be routed to the BLACK leg of the cable going to the Automatic Change-over switch. Thus giving a total of 60 amps.

Since the WHITE wire on the 30-amp service is only routed to both legs of the Polarity Indicators, a Ground Fault Indicator (GFI) breaker on the 30-amp service will pop (typical BB problem).

The white wire from the 50-amp service is the only wire carrying the neutral current, but the wire all the way to the 50-to-30-amp adapter should be 6 gauge and rated for 50 to 55 amps, and should adequate. The 50-to-30-amp adapter would be the weak link in the wiring. The 50-amp service connector should also be able to handle at least 50 amps. If the two 30-amp services are taken from a pair of 110 VAC legs derived from a 220 VAC line with a center tapped neutral, the neutral current will be shared by the two legs and the neutral current will be the difference between the current in the two legs. This would be a favorable connection arrangement.

All my rambling assumes the right relay is not correctly drawn in the attached diagram. Has anyone verified the wiring as shown in the diagram is as wired?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 94_Elect_Sys_AC_Power Input.pdf (637.9 KB, 52 views)
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'94 WB40
Huntsville, AL
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  #14  
Old 07-30-2016
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Dieselbird01 Dieselbird01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movin' On View Post
Attached is a portion of the “94_Elect_Sys.pdf” file that I downloaded from WOG for a ’94 BB. It shows the 50-amp service, the 30-amp service, and two relays that control what power sources are routed to the change-over switch. The ’94 coach has a fixed 50-amp cable and only one connector for the 30-amp service. (Other coaches have two 30-amp connectors as well as the 50-amp connector.)

I tried to figure out how the relays control the AC power before I checked out the Bird with a meter. The relay circuit should select only the 50-amp service or both the 50-amp service and the 30-amp service when both are plugged in. The power for both services should be from separate 30-amp services. (The 50-amp cable would have a 50-to-30-amp adaptor as implied in the ’94 User Manual. I do not see the sense in using a 50-amp service along with the 30-amp service.)

I interpreted the diagram as showing that the coil of the left relay is pulled-in when power is applied to the 50-amp service. The same applies for the right relay coil, it pulls in when power is applied to the 30-amp service. When the 50-amp service alone has power, then the left relay alone is pulled in. In this condition it appears that the RED leg from the 50-amp service is not connected to anything since it is routed only to a contact on the right relay, which is not pulled in. This does not make sense to me and I would like to have my circuit description reviewed to find any errors.

The diagram makes sense to me if the RED leg contact on the right relay were normally closed rather than normally open. Then the red leg would be routed from the right relay, through the left relay, to the red leg on the cable going to the Automatic Change-over switch and also leg-two of the polarity indicator. Since I have not found the relays I do not know if they have a normally closed connection available. Does anyone know where to find the relays?

If 30-amp power is connected to both the 50-amp service and the 30-amp service then the RED leg connected to the contact on the right relay would be opened (assuming the normally closed contact) because the right relay would be pulled in. The BLACK leg from the 30-amp service would be routed to the RED leg of the cable going to the Automatic Change-over switch instead of the RED leg from the 50-amp service. The BLACK leg from the 50-amp service (30 amp power) would be routed to the BLACK leg of the cable going to the Automatic Change-over switch. Thus giving a total of 60 amps.

Since the WHITE wire on the 30-amp service is only routed to both legs of the Polarity Indicators, a Ground Fault Indicator (GFI) breaker on the 30-amp service will pop (typical BB problem).

The white wire from the 50-amp service is the only wire carrying the neutral current, but the wire all the way to the 50-to-30-amp adapter should be 6 gauge and rated for 50 to 55 amps, and should adequate. The 50-to-30-amp adapter would be the weak link in the wiring. The 50-amp service connector should also be able to handle at least 50 amps. If the two 30-amp services are taken from a pair of 110 VAC legs derived from a 220 VAC line with a center tapped neutral, the neutral current will be shared by the two legs and the neutral current will be the difference between the current in the two legs. This would be a favorable connection arrangement.

All my rambling assumes the right relay is not correctly drawn in the attached diagram. Has anyone verified the wiring as shown in the diagram is as wired?
Hi Dave,

Yes the red wire does go to a normally closed set of contacts but they also left out a white wire on the drawing so, once you see that, it may change your thinking on the neutral wiring a little.

I noticed those same problems in the drawing for my 91 WB back in 2011 so I made a pdf note to myself about it.

When I made the attached pdf in 2011, I noted how I "thought" it must be wired. Since then I have "verified" that the factory drawing was wrong on both counts and that mine is in fact wired as I speculated on page 2.

On my 91, the relays are in a metal box mounted below the removable floor of the rear bedroom closet along with the rear component panel and the transfer switch.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Leg 1- Leg 2 Shore Power Switch.pdf (165.7 KB, 101 views)
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John Wyatt
Titusville, Florida
1991 40' WLWB-WTB
Body Number F095567
My Location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user1.cfm?user=4
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  #15  
Old 08-02-2016
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Movin' On Movin' On is offline
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John,

Thanks for the PDF showing the normally closed contact and the white neutral wire. It is good to know where to start looking for the relays.

Have you tried to use a GFI circuit breaker on the 30-amp wire? I think I will start carrying regular 30-amp breakers and replacing the GFIs while I am using the two 30-amp services. I went through a lot of work separating neutrals to make my '84 PT36 not blow GFI breakers, but I do not see a practical way to separate neutrals on the new to me '94.
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'94 WB40
Huntsville, AL
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  #16  
Old 08-03-2016
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Dieselbird01 Dieselbird01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movin' On View Post
John,

Thanks for the PDF showing the normally closed contact and the white neutral wire. It is good to know where to start looking for the relays.

Have you tried to use a GFI circuit breaker on the 30-amp wire? I think I will start carrying regular 30-amp breakers and replacing the GFIs while I am using the two 30-amp services. I went through a lot of work separating neutrals to make my '84 PT36 not blow GFI breakers, but I do not see a practical way to separate neutrals on the new to me '94.
No I've just used my 50 Amp cord with a 30 Amp adapter plugged into a 30 Amp GFCI outlet and cut back on power usage accordingly.

If I ever need a little more power and my only choice is GFCI outlets, I'll probably also use two 20 Amp cords to supply power directly to my battery charger and my refrigerator without going through my breaker box.
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Titusville, Florida
1991 40' WLWB-WTB
Body Number F095567
My Location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user1.cfm?user=4

Last edited by Dieselbird01; 08-03-2016 at 03:46 AM.
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  #17  
Old 08-15-2016
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George George is offline
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Guys, I am working on my 94 WB and some switches that have been toasted since we bought the bus. I was reading your posts about the 50 and 30 amp cords and the left and right switches. I need to replace both switches, but am wondering why both are there?
since we bought our bus in order to make power I had to un hook the breaker box power cable from the switch and install a 50 amp plug. then install 50 amp receptacles on both the generator lead and shore power lead. so I have been plugging up which ever one needs to be used. the way it is wired I cannot understand the 30 vs 50 amp switches? we have been using our 30 amp adapter whenever we don't have 50 amps at a park without any issues. So my question is: can we just run one switch for 50 amps using the progressive PD 52 DCS box and do away with the two switches currently wired before the generator/ shore power switch? or should I replace both switches and just install the PD geni switch after the 50 / 30 amp switches? ( I see three other lines coming into this box, one romex, and two three conductor 6 ga jacketed cables. What are these? as none have been used for three years and we have not noticed any non working devices). thanks for any help you can give. George
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  #18  
Old 09-09-2016
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George George is offline
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Has anyone heard of problems with SP compatibility between powertech genset and Progressive Dynamics PD 52 DCS combination auto switch and surge protection? I was told by a tech at Progressive that they have engineered the surge protection with a bit longer delay to accommodate load spikes such as an A/C turning on. Thoughts please.
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  #19  
Old 6 Days Ago
ozcheek ozcheek is offline
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Default Power cord adapter

After several false starts attempting to find an adapter to connect to the male twist lock on my 1969 FC, I need help.
When I clicked on the link for female adapter in the original post of this thread, the link took me to a message saying, The Apple Store Wants to Make You A Millionaire” followed by This Is No Joke..
I’m trying to avoid having to use my shore cord as part of the pieces.
Also phoned Tweety’s twice over the last 3 days and they haven’t been able to help me.
Presently I’m using the shore cord along with 2 adapters to power the battery charger charger.
Oz
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