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-   -   Mitigation of a Runaway (https://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26247)

Rich Johnson 07-26-2016 01:26 PM

Mitigation of a Runaway
 
1 Attachment(s)
This is a spin off of the thread titled "mystery Spring"

Firstly: A runaway is an uncontrolled operation of a diesel either by governor malfunction or an improper source of fuel getting into the cylinders.

I proposed three methods to mitigate a runaway 1) closing the rack by shutting off the fuel solenoid or manually pressing on the rack linkage, 2) Air restriction by an intake damper modification, 3) CO2 injection into the intake manifold modification.

Solution 1 will not mitigate an improper source of fuel event. Solution 2 has issues that have not been fully explored, picture is of in progress damper mod. Solution 3 is expensive and not yet applied

treebob 07-26-2016 07:09 PM

Rich, I can appreciate your determination.

Now, regarding your 3 step solutions:

1. The Cat fuel injection pump and shut off solenoid work flawlessly when the system is not contaminated with water, dirt, rust, improperly repaired, or just plain worn out. I have worked for Cat for 25 years, Mike has great prices on ready to go pumps.

2. Air restrictions systems work great, they are installed on trucks that are used in the oil field industry, and are reliable and used when lives are at stake. I have seen engines continue to run with only a pin hole to supply air, you may be underestimating the degree of accuracy required to completely shut the air supply off. The manufactured air shut off's are designed to seal 100%, no gaps, nothing. I know you brought up the breather issue on another post, so I will assume you will address the breather also if you go this route, as it is 100% necessary.

3. I have no experience with solution 3, however I'm sure it would work with a properly sized system, and it looks like your not overly interested at this point anyway.

I believe I've read a thread where you had some type of fuel contamination entry into your pump, I believe your best option is to get that pump removed, and either disassembled to inspect it, or just plain replace it. Even if you get your air restriction to work flawlessly and reliably, what are you going to do if your driving somewhere and you have to activate your air restriction to shut it down? Coast to a stop, then what? I also believe you underestimate how quickly an engine can overspeed, bend push tubes, cause pistons to hit the valves, which either causes a valve to drop, or a piston skirt to break due to being cocked sideways by the valve, and suddenly you have multiple holes in your engine block. This can happen when you are not even in the driver's seat, and you will have no hope of reaching it in time.

I don't want to discourage you, I simply want to see your engine live, and I have seen actual failures that can cost you well over $15,000. I've got one in the shop now with an estimate of over $16,000 to get it running again, without any pump work yet, hope to have it out the door by friday. Please, get that pump rebuilt!

3208's have a bad rap from many who ran them in trucks 20+ years ago. The engine I'm rebuilding now, is 30 years old, and still has factory rod bearings dated 1985. They look great! This engine, however is in an industrial application, steady speed, and never over speeded. I've seen countless 3208's that have been ruined by overspeed, usually in a truck with a manual transmission. They don't do well with overspeed. I hope you continue to keep us updated, and wish you well.

Randy Dupree 07-26-2016 10:22 PM

Good post Bob,thanks

wtwtw 07-27-2016 06:31 AM

There are a lot of intelligent people on this site that have been dealing with these and other machines for years. Do your self a big favor and listen to them. They are here to help not hinder you

Rich Johnson 07-27-2016 11:28 AM

For Bill Wilson - Good advice
 
Good advice. Exactly why I posted the thread in the first place. Trying to get, and share important information received from those with experience and knowledge. Me, I'm just a guy with some hunches, and a few guesswork ideas.

I took apart the rear section of my pump/governor to the point of removing the shield over the fly weights. Removed the little mystery spring then cleaned and reassembled the rear again I didn't find the sticky deposit in the governor, that I found in the Facet pump screen. Just some brown stain. Perhaps the screen and subsequent filter and water separator did it's job. When I had the governor apart I noticed that the linkage to the racks worked smoothly without sticking. When I first had a semi-runaway event, I had a stick placed in the starter solenoid hole ready to press on the rack shut off linkage. Pressing on the linkage seemed to mitigate the situation.

The comment regarding how I would not be able to quickly actuate the damper solution is quite valid. Good to know that solution 2 has actually been incorporation in industry. Again pointing back to solution 3 being the most viable solution.

Seconds to Bupree comment - The Treebob reply is well worth reading - more than once.

wtwtw 07-27-2016 03:53 PM

If you are really wanting to do #3 would a halon fire extinguisher for a race car engine compartment or like we use for the fridge compartment work in the air intake.

Rich Johnson 07-27-2016 08:54 PM

Halon fire extinguisher
 
Coming from the nuclear industry, I've a little experience with both CO2 and Halon. CO2 is used in areas such as switch gear that should be evacuated before actuation, and Halon in areas that need the continuous presence of human occupation. CO2 deluge systems kill before you even know you're dead. Isn't Halon on the expensive side? Been looking through my old rusty Thermodynamics books and am developing a theory or two about the subject at hand. Beginning to lean in favor of the CO2, or Halon solution. Good tip on racing systems. Will check.

wtwtw 07-27-2016 09:00 PM

I picked up a small halon extinguisher from craig's list for $25.00. Just have not mounted it in the engine compartment yet

Rich Johnson 07-28-2016 10:35 AM

Halotron Extinguisher
 
Found that Amazon sells a Kiddie halotron extinguishers for less that 100 dollars. 2.5 pounds capacity. Halotron is supposed to be the new Halon. Good deal on the used halon extinguisher.

Rick 07-28-2016 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Johnson (Post 347957)
Found that Amazon sells a Kiddie halotron extinguishers for less that 100 dollars. 2.5 pounds capacity. Halotron is supposed to be the new Halon. Good deal on the used halon extinguisher.


What I would like to know if I were trying to stop this type runaway with Halon is how many cubic inches is in that bottle. Your going to have to displace CO2 more than one or two time.


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