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-   -   M380 Solar - An All-Electric Conversion (https://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25074)

NoGas 03-10-2016 04:15 AM

M380 Solar - An All-Electric Conversion
 
Am starting this thread for my upcoming solar conversion project. Our M380 has already undergone a basic all-electric conversion by removing the LP tank, converting the former LP bottle bay to a real one, replacing the Trace inverter with a Magnum pure sine wave, dumping the Dometic ice cream melter in favor of a Samsung RF18 and the induction range is on the way. However, the 3 stock AGM 4D's are woefully inadequate. But that's about to change! Have been planning this last & biggest part of the conversion for awhile. But now I'm getting the parts together with the goal of having this major upgrade finished before the heat hits Phoenix. If you're curious what it will look like (minus my own special "tweeks" of course :D) and want to wet your apatite for what's to come, check out Nina & Paul's awesome just installed system detailed over 4 posts and a video beginning with:

http://wheelingit.us/2016/02/24/the-...de-part-i-why/

Then stay tuned, the fun's about to begin :)

Kev 03-10-2016 12:46 PM

Thanks for the link. That's an impressive setup that Nina and Paul put together. Best of luck with your install. I'll be following your progress closely and look forward to reading your posts and learning a lot.

Randy Dupree 03-10-2016 12:48 PM

My Lith battery is alive and well,15 months on it now,with one little $10 glitch.
I like it,and would do it again.

NoGas 03-12-2016 02:17 AM

Cardboard battery mockups
 
1 Attachment(s)
Took a cardboard box and made 3 battery sized boxes (I'm planning 4). Headed out to coach this weekend for a different project & will "play" with them to figure out best placement before I order. It's amazing that 800 Ah (over 600Ah usable) and 1016 kWh of capacity can be packed into such a small package that weighs only 220 lbs! Obtaining 600 Ah of usable juice from 4d's would require 6 at a 50% depth of discharge and approx 700 lbs! :eek:

Model GBS-LFMP200AH - http://elitepowersolutions.com/produ...roducts_id=149
- Nominal Voltage: 12.8V (4X 3.2 V)
- Nominal Capacity: 200 Ah
- LiFeMnPO4 chemistry
- Operation Voltage Range: 11.2 to 14.4V
- Weight: 24.9 kg or 55.0 lbs
- Dimension: 500 X 259 X 142 mm or 19.25 X 10.2 X 5.5 in
- Max Charging Current: 3C
- Max Discharge Current: 3C (continuous) / 10C (pulsed)
- Cycle Life : >2000 (80%DOD)
- Operating Temperature: -20 to 65 C or -4 to 149 F
- Self Discharge Rate: <3% monthly

These are the same cells from Elite that Nina & Paul installed and they're big brothers of the ones I put in my scooter 4 years ago. Called Elite today and their tech answered right away. As others have mentioned, Balqon's are slightly cheaper but it's next to impossible to get support from them :(. Being able to immediately speak with an exceedingly patient tech on a project like this can be a lifesaver!
.

Randy Dupree 03-12-2016 09:06 AM

so,your using 4 200ah batteries?

NoGas 03-13-2016 03:15 AM

Yes, that's the plan.

NoGas 03-13-2016 01:08 PM

The Plan - Just a few things to think about...
 
Here's a preliminary list:

LITHIUM

GBS-LFMP200AH (4 cell pack) by Elite Power Solutions (EPS) - $1,480 x 4 = $5,920
EMS-4SB200-V7 by EPS - $122.50 x 4 = $490
EMS-CPU by EPS - $155
EMS-LCB by EPS - $50

SOLAR

Sunvia OPT285-S35 Mono w/ Silver Frame from SunElec.com - $194 ea x 5 = $970 (1425 watts total)
Unirac (flat surface mount) - $200
Magnum PT100 solar charge controller - $719
Cable, switches, barrel connectors, contactors, fuses, misc - ? (I'm budgeting $500)
Magnum Energy MMP250-30D Mini-Magnum Panel 250ADC/Dual 30AAC - $470
Magnum MS2812 with AGS, BMK, shunt and remote panel - already installed but will be moved

INSTALLATION

Free :rolleyes:. Basically, I'll follow Nina & Paul's example by installing the battery pack and inverter with its new panel in the right rear closet. This will eliminate all concerns about heat damaging everything and I get a "new" compartment on the outside for lawn chairs :). Thankfully, solar panel prices have come way down! I'll use 5 house panels placed east-west to eliminate shading concerns. Will mount them almost flush with the roof and am using shorter 60 cell panels to keep it aesthetically pleasing while avoiding that common aircraft carrier "flat-top" look (330 watt panels for 1,650 watts total is easily doable but that'd take the panels to within 6" of the coach sides). Have considered a linear actuator powered tilting mechanism for the middle 4 panel array but manually tilting them with this placement should be fairly easy and quick - since only four supports will be needed for the high-end and they should be able to be placed standing on the ladder without getting up on top of the roof. Lifting from either side will be possible since shading is not a problem. Routing solar cables from the panels to the new closet location will be easy since I'm wiring the panels in series and can use thinner gauge wire. The inverter/charger will be moved to that rear location using a very slick Magnum panel box which mates with the Magnum inverter, and 4/0 cables will be run to the front ATS/PSU box. Almost everything would be transferable to my next coach - IF that happens. The 5-year old lead AGM's could be left in place to provide more storage capacity. Should I decide to sell the coach and get something else, that'd make transferring the system & converting back to lead easy. Then all I would have to do is pull everything & move the inverter back up front. However, I'll likely remove the lead to delete the weight. They are already 5 years old and new ones would be needed for the next owner anyway...

ADDITIONAL: Cost estimates for some of the stuff above are probably on the high side. Elite has started a distributor network. Their tech I spoke with was fairly certain I could purchase through one of them for less and then PO the pickup at the "factory" in Chandler AZ (very close to me). SunElec has a fulfillment warehouse in Phoenix with no sales tax required and I hope to acquire many of the misc items via Amazon or the Internet.

Easy right?! :D:)
.

NoGas 03-19-2016 06:27 PM

Negative lithium experiences? Considering battery options...
 
1 Attachment(s)
Has anyone had negative experiences with lithiums (other than their effects on pocketbooks ;))??

You can find an outline of coach battery options at this WOG thread (my posts 38, 40 & 43). Jim B added that AGM GC2's are available from SAMs. Still considering my options :rolleyes:. Decisions, decisions!

Using my cardboard lithium battery mockups I determined 4 - 200Ah Elite/GBS packs will fit perfectly in the M380 dual slide, right rear closet on the floor behind the existing AC breaker panel. There's even room for the Magnum panel/inverter/PT100 solar charger - stack above. Wiring it this way will be a challenge because space is tight, but it looks doable. Except for the Magnum "phone" wire and a couple 4/0 DC cable runs up front, having that AC breaker panel literally right next to everything should make wiring easier.

Instead of lithiums, placing lead batteries in the bay below wouldn't change things much. The Magnum panel/inverter/PT100 charger will still be placed in the closet and wiring runs to the batts would remain short to the bay immediately below.

Lots people running with lithiums, including Randy so technology seems ready-for-prime time :)??

isp2952 03-19-2016 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoGas (Post 333622)
Has anyone had negative experiences with lithiums (other than their effects on pocketbooks ;))??

You can find an outline of coach battery options at this WOG thread (my posts 38, 40 & 43). Jim B added that AGM GC2's are available from SAMs. Still considering my options :rolleyes:. Decisions, decisions!

Using my cardboard lithium battery mockups I determined 4 - 200Ah Elite/GBS packs will fit perfectly in the M380 dual slide, right rear closet on the floor behind the existing AC breaker panel. There's even room for the Magnum panel/inverter/PT100 solar charger - stack above. Wiring it this way will be a challenge because space is tight, but it looks doable. Except for the Magnum "phone" wire and a couple 4/0 DC cable runs up front, having that AC breaker panel literally right next to everything should make wiring easier.

Instead of lithiums, placing lead batteries in the bay below wouldn't change things much. The Magnum panel/inverter/PT100 charger will still be placed in the closet and wiring runs to the batts would remain short to the bay immediately below.

Lots people running with lithiums, including Randy so technology seems ready-for-prime time :)??

Van, I'd say you managed the hardest task of all so far. Convincing the wife that she doesn't need that closet anymore.:eek::D:D:D So the rest should be easy.;)

BBERIC35 03-26-2016 04:53 PM

I admit to not being well informed on the subject of Lithium batteries up front, but the one concern I would have about cells with a high power density is the possibility of internal shorts and fire. I know there have been incidents on aircraft carrying them as cargo as well as spontaneous fires in toys from them. Just something to consider.


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