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  #41  
Old 12-12-2018
technomage99 technomage99 is offline
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Default Good video of "irate" lithium batteries

For those who are thinking of using lithium batteries for their coaches. See the Youtube video at the end of this.
A fellow who regularly tinkers with Teslas and their components went a little
off the beam and installed two Model S lithium battery modules in a little wooden "Disney" fire engine without the protection and "battery coddling" features. Result: 888 lithium cells suffered thermal runaway. Made for
quite a pyrotechnic display fully recorded from multiple high def video cameras in his buddy's shop. I seriously wonder if other EV makers
(Ex GM) are as thorough with safety precautions. Supposedly Tesla has the highest energy density per pound of any EV battery on the market, so if you use their batteries, but don't carry forward their battery management and thermal protection -- oops!
Careful out there!
Video follows:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdDi1haA71Q
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Last edited by technomage99; 12-12-2018 at 12:54 AM.
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  #42  
Old 12-12-2018
badandy badandy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technomage99 View Post
For those who are thinking of using lithium batteries for their coaches. See the Youtube video at the end of this.
A fellow who regularly tinkers with Teslas and their components went a little
off the beam and installed two Model S lithium battery modules in a little wooden "Disney" fire engine without the protection and "battery coddling" features. Result: 880 lithium cells suffered thermal runaway. Made for
quite a pyrotechnic display fully recorded from multiple high def video cameras in his buddy's shop. I seriously wonder if other EV makers
(Ex GM) are as thorough with safety precautions. Supposedly Tesla has the highest energy density per pound of any EV battery on the market, so if you use their batteries, but don't carry forward their battery management and thermal protection -- oops!
Careful out there!
Video follows:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdDi1haA71Q
That video was a complete setup job for views just like all his others begging for money for his half-assery. The only way that happened was a dead short across the battery or massive overcharging at a voltage higher than they are supposed to have. I vote for dead short, he wouldn't have a power supply large enough to overcharge based on his previous "works".

So as long as you don't dead short them out with a massive wire/metal bar that won't just melt away and you don't charge them for hours at a much higher voltage then this won't happen. What do you think a lead-acid battery does in the same situation?
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  #43  
Old 12-12-2018
technomage99 technomage99 is offline
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Default TESLA BATTERY FIREWORKS

I agree that Rich always has his "hand out" for Patreon contributions like many many other youtubers. I don't think that fire was on purpose because it was inside his buddy's shop in front of the landlord. He should have known better about charging w/o the proper charger -- probable oversight or a tool fell onto the exposed battery terminals.

I figure inside a Tesla is the safest place for those batteries with their temperature control and voltage monitoring. Rich does have some cred because he managed to put together a working model S "daily driver" with the parts from other totaled Teslas and documented the process on YouTube. Rich is NOT an EE, just a "gear head" car enthusiast! Once he published those YouTube videos, the price of "totaled" Teslas shot up becoming close to used ones. Parts are worth lotsa $$$ and he's accumulated a bunch. Rich wants to set up his own shop for EV work, but I dunno how much of a businessman he is. Entertaining to watch sometimes.

There are other DIY folks who have made their own home "power walls" using batteries from "totaled" Teslas and other EV's , but I have NOT noticed if they cobbled together "liquid cooling" for powerwalls. I don't want that much flammable material in my house with that much energy w/o precautions.

Tesla sells their own
"Powerwalls" for $$$, but orders way exceed supply and deliveries are slow. "Professional installation" and adherence to building codes required.
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  #44  
Old 12-12-2018
badandy badandy is offline
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Keep in mind that the heating and cooling mechanisms are only there to extend the life of the battery due to every day charging and discharging. There are many temperature sensors in the battery itself and they measure the voltage within the battery at *many* points. If the load or charge is too high for whatever reason they simply open the contactors on the battery to disconnect it. Except as the result of a crash, there is just no way these things are going to ever overheat and self-destruct with or without the built-in cooling stuff.

The other way to view this guy's video here is that he had an awful lot of camera angles on it and the shop owner was right there waiting for this to happen. He unplugged something from the wall when he ran over there and rolled the car out giving the impression that the car was charging. Except there was nothing hanging out of the car including the cord he just unplugged.
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  #45  
Old 12-13-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badandy View Post
That video was a complete setup job...
Agree with Andy. Cord was never plugged into car so the cell spontaneously combusted? Plus if this clown knows anything about lithium cells, the LAST thing he’s gonna do is stick his head down next to it and try to “blow out the candle”!

Have run a converted SLA scooter with an Elite Power pack for 5 years and it’s positioned BETWEEN my legs! To date, no issues noted
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  #46  
Old 12-13-2018
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You have to admit, staged or not, it was a pretty impressive fire. Wouldn't want to see that happen to batteries installed in a cargo bay.

In the video you saw them try, unsuccessfully, to put out that fire with what looked to be a class C extinguisher.

If you're hauling lithium ion batteries you might consider carrying a class D fire extinguisher. It could at least give you a fighting chance should your batteries ignite.
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Last edited by Kev; 12-13-2018 at 05:34 PM.
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  #47  
Old 12-13-2018
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There’s an excellent discussion of lithium safety on this Battery University webpage: https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...ns_with_li_ion

IF a lithium cell catches fire, putting that fire out will be next to impossible. A small fire extinguisher would be worthless. A couple years ago I was fiddling around with a cheap drone at the Lake Havasu fireworks show. Everyone was sitting in front of their coaches enjoying the early evening and I was changing the battery in the drone. In the process of removing it I nicked the plastic battery casing ever so slightly and noticed it starting to fizz in my hand. I instantly dropped it. But before it reached the ground the battery was consumed in a fireball about the size of a volleyball! The fire portion went out almost immediately, but that battery pack was only 250 mili-amps . Can’t imagine what kind of fireball would’ve been created by a 200 amp cell catching fire! And if it somehow spread to other cells in the pack, you would likely kiss your bird goodbye Toni saw it happen and it made a big impression. That’s the real reason we ended up with AGM’s in the bus. True story
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  #48  
Old 12-13-2018
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That battery you shorted out was the cheapest of the cheap and completely different than the OEM car stuff.
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  #49  
Old 12-18-2018
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The Golden Retriever didn’t think much of that.
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