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LX and LXI (Unique Issues) If you have a unique issue with your LX or LXI model coach and it can't be answered in one of the other forums here, then this is where you can list it, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THOSE ISSUES INVOLVED WITH ANY LAWSUIT.....list your LX and LXI Parts here too.

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  #11  
Old 1 Week Ago
NoGas's Avatar
NoGas NoGas is offline
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Default Battery Upgrade? Consider Lithiums

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Originally Posted by The Fuenti View Post
...Can you post pictures of your batteries. I'm thinking of this project down the road and your battery bay should be similar to mine.
To Jose and anyone else considering a battery upgrade, especially if you’re all-electric and/or have solar...

Thinking about a battery upgrade? I did one several years ago and went with AGM’s - see HERE. However if I was doing mine again, I’d seriously consider going lithium and would have to look at Battle Born’s. To get the equivalent of Jim and my 600 Ah USABLE with BB’s you’d need 600 Ah of lithium’s. That’s because ALL of their RATED capacity can be used! Depending on your needs you could easily reduce that number to 4 or 5 batteries and drop the cost accordingly. At Q this year in the BB booth they were selling them at $850 for either of their 100 Ah batteries. That’d make BB’s a little less than twice as expensive as mine and a bit more for Jim’s (he went old school liquid), but the performance increase with BB’s would be light years ahead of BOTH our “antique” lead acids. In round numbers each of my FullRiver 415 Ah 6V AGM’s was around $500 meaning I spent almost $3K for my setup. Except for the weight (BB’s would’ve saved 500 lbs!), I love having 1,260 RATED Ah and up to 600 USABLE Ah! However, had BB’s been available 2 years ago at the price mentioned above I would’ve been sorely tempted by that route! Their initial cost still appears high, but long term they end up being cheaper and their performance is on the next level compared to old school lead. Something else to consider.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/

Lots of YouTube videos also posted at: https://m.youtube.com/results?search...born+batteries
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  #12  
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Jim Brookshire Jim Brookshire is offline
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Dean,
Yes, the shut off is on the negative, the best way in my opinion.
Positive feeds are to inverter and a feed from Solar on the two 4/0 cables with fuses. They are the original feeds to the two original Trace inverters. I now use one Magnum PSW and the second to the solar charger.
The left switch is a manual combiner, I removed the BB relay.
I still have 3 AGM starting batteries that are now also supplying non inverter coach loads when the banks are separated. — that will probably be changed to connect them directly to the new coach bank. Still a work in progress.
The cell interconnects are 1/8 by 1 inch buss bar with shrink insulation. Homemade
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AnthonyNAthens AnthonyNAthens is offline
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We've been considering an upgrade to Battleborn batteries as well. I talked to them last week. 3,000 to 5,000 charge cycles really got my attention. When you do the math, they can actually be considerably less expensive in the long run than lead-acid. I also like that we could install two EasyStar 364 (3-ton) Soft Starters for the A/C's so we could run them off the inverter during the day and even for a few hours at night. We've got 1200 watts of solar.
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DW SD DW SD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyNAthens View Post
We've been considering an upgrade to Battleborn batteries as well. I talked to them last week. 3,000 to 5,000 charge cycles really got my attention. When you do the math, they can actually be considerably less expensive in the long run than lead-acid. I also like that we could install two EasyStar 364 (3-ton) Soft Starters for the A/C's so we could run them off the inverter during the day and even for a few hours at night. We've got 1200 watts of solar.
They could be the last batteries you buy!

I think the best part might be the lithium charging rates. Unlike lead acids, you don't have to throttle the last 10%. Topping off lead acids (or AGMs) with generator is inefficient to downright wasteful.

Great install here by Jim, btw. Love the use of industrial-grade batteries.
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  #15  
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Jim Brookshire Jim Brookshire is offline
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To my thinking, it is not necessarily the cells that might be the long term issue with lithium batteries, but the accessories ie. the charge control electronics. I think there was no problem with Randy’s cells, but his battery was still not usable. How many traffic lights have you seen with some of the leds out, not the bad LEDs, just bad control circuits.

I may be wrong, but I expect the new Rolls batteries to last long enough (if I maintain them properly) to be considerably cheaper than lithium.

Again, just one guys opinion.
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Jim Brookshire Jim Brookshire is offline
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Just a reality check on running air conditioners. Your AC units will pull roughly 15 amps each. That is a total of 30 amps for two. On AC that will be 3600 watts with no allowance for losses. Will require more than 300 amps of DC, again with no allowance for losses. Does not appear to be realistic, at least to me.
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dmbertrand dmbertrand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Brookshire View Post
Dean,

I still have 3 AGM starting batteries that are now also supplying non inverter coach loads when the banks are separated. — that will probably be changed to connect them directly to the new coach bank. Still a work in progress.
Jim

Please confirm that above quote is your reply to my question d: in post #10 this thread "is you setup now a single bank with engine cranking off this bank?"

To my way of thinking your original thread has now been broadened to encompass lithium batteries, solar charging and air conditioning and is no longer only about flooded lead acid batteries.

Without paraphasing you are you saying at present when chassis and house banks are NOT combined ALL 12 VDC loads are serviced from chassis bank. If so a: is SOP to run combined (if so you are you not basically single bank already? and b: do you intend to eliminate chassis bank completely in future and crank off single house bank.

My unit useage is 4 months a year with 15 to 30 days max of boondocking and my priority is reliablely supporting refrigeration only. I do not believe I can justify lithium / solar in this case and thus understanding your flooded lead acid install is very important to me. My air conditioners are no longer on inverter cicuits.

Your reply and any further NoGas comments appreciated.

Dean
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  #18  
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badandy badandy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Brookshire View Post
Just a reality check on running air conditioners. Your AC units will pull roughly 15 amps each. That is a total of 30 amps for two. On AC that will be 3600 watts with no allowance for losses. Will require more than 300 amps of DC, again with no allowance for losses. Does not appear to be realistic, at least to me.
If he has a good inverter it will absolutely run 1 A/C without any problems with an Easystart installed. Running two isn't probably going to happen, however.
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Jim Brookshire Jim Brookshire is offline
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Dean,

Sorry things got sidetracked. Before I installed the new batteries, all my batteries were connected together — 3 AGM engine and 3 4D AGM coach.

With the change to flooded lead acid I am looking to separate them to optimize the charging of the new coach bank. I just (today) moved the feed for the 12 volt coach loads to connect to the new Coach bank. Now both the inverter and 12 volt coach loads are fed from the new Rolls battery bank and it is charged by either the inverter or the solar charge controller.

The engine batteries are separate and are charged by the engine alternator.

The separate systems can be connected by manually operating the switch on the left of the picture.

The arrangement is similar to what Bluebird initially installed with the manual switch substituted for the original relay. What I posted previously was actually my mistake in not realizing that when I separated the batteries, I was running the coach 12 VDC loads off the engine batteries.

Sorry for the confusion, just a mistake on my part.

As for your current situation. In my opinion almost all solar installations for your type of use are because people (myself included) just want to do it. A good battery bank, either 4 or 6 each 4D 12 volt AGM; 4 or 6 each 6 volt L16 flooded or AGM; 6 each 2 volt flooded or AGM that are connected to a good pure sine wave inverter will be a good and cost effective solution. Charge it for a couple of hours in the morning and a couple in the evening and you will be fine. I like my solar installation, but you can buy a lot of diesel for the cost of a solar installation.

If you would like to talk, feel free to call 828 243-2776
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  #20  
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Default Hijack Correction and Apology

Sorry Jim to have opened the lithium can of worms . I like your 2V solution because it makes wiring simple compared to using 6V. As you know, the original way BB wired the M380’s three 4D’s was bad. At the very least, our M380 guys should correct that. However I like the maintenance free aspect of my AGM’s so BB got that part right. Spending the extra $$ to upgrade yours would’ve been worth it, IMO. FullRiver’s were my lower cost AGM alternative to LifeLines and their performance has been outstanding. Lastly, I mentioned the lithium alternative above because that’s what I was thinking about when I saw this thread. Unless everyone is curious about that or likes reading my sometimes overly long winded posts , STOP here . Otherwise I moved the rest of this post (and a little more) to my M380 All-Electric thread. Click HERE and go to post #80 to see that...
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Last edited by NoGas; 1 Week Ago at 08:31 AM. Reason: Moved most of Lithium post to All Electric M380 Thread
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