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General Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach that are not covered in other Mechanic's Corner categories (ex. refrigerators, water heaters, and compressors).

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  #11  
Old 02-26-2014
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NealinNevada NealinNevada is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Dupree View Post
Just wandering!
My buddy in Alaska says they never thaw out when its bad cold,and the equipment can't idle to stay warm.
We need to keep this about equipment,and not get political!
Old man Finn will have my head if it goes Political!

Interesting stuff,the diesel techs of 2020 will all be wearing suits and will have a "helper" to replace bad stuff.
Laptops on every tool box!

Dang,i sound like my dad and grandad!!
I can see when an Alaskan refers to "bad cold" that the DEF tanks would have a heck of a time getting thawed . DOT here has begun dipping DEF tanks at inspections...some guys have just been putting water in the tank. The system doesn't know the difference between DEF and plain water, but litmus paper does. Fine, for tampering, is I believe $3700 for an individual .
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1994 WB40 and a slow '73 Nova SS
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Where we are...

Once more I have to ask "What did humans ever do to deserve dogs?"

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  #12  
Old 02-26-2014
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Rich Johnson Rich Johnson is offline
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Default Humor?

Yes, I was making an attempt at some satirical humor. A friend of mine sent me an article saying that if you drive a Mercedes, get ready for some hefty tariffs if the MB shop does your DEF refill. Something over 300 bucks. Also apparently a car that uses the DEF system, can detect human made DEF and will not like that "flavor". Perhaps it needs to come from cows?

Article: <http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...ee-in-the-tank >
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  #13  
Old 02-26-2014
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peteaeonix peteaeonix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Dupree View Post
go gardner go!!

I will never have a DEF tank on anything i own,no way i can afford all the issues that are bound to come up with yet another emission control.
How do you keep the DEF from freezing?
My Roadtrek (Sprinter Van) has a Mercedes diesel engine and a DEF tank. A full tank lasts about 10 thousand miles. (It's about 3 gallons or so.) There is a warning light that gives you about a thousand mile warning when the tank is getting low. DEF is available in all auto parts stores now as well as a "pump" at some truck stops. (I presume that the larger engines must use more of the stuff.)

The owner's manual states that the DEF tank has an electric heating element (12 v) that automatically keeps the tank unfrozen in cold weather while the engine is on. Apparently they've designed the thing to take freezing OK, allowing the heater to thaw it.

The vehicle still operates normally with frozen/no DEF. No damage to the engine will occur, although you will be releasing more NOX compounds and other pollutants.

Like the catalytic converters that appeared 20-30 years ago, the DEF allows a diesel engine to have fewer convoluted controls and develop more horsepower. The 2009 Sprinter Van V6 engine developed 154 HP. The 2010 Van with DEF has 188 HP (and significantly more torque, too). Same fuel economy ratings. Same engine. Different pollution control.

There is no "rule" that DEF must be used. The engine manufacturer can use any means at it's disposal to meet the EPA standards for various pollutants. Navistar (formerly International Harvester) took a "risky" route attempting to create technology that didn't use DEF. Hundreds of millions were invested in add-on technology. The gamble didn't work and the engines did not meet the EPA standard. EPA has assessed fines on Navistar. The company brushed with bankruptcy. (They'd have been heroes if their ideas had only worked.)

My initial reaction was DEF would be a pain -- but the reality is that it's no big deal, it's easy enough to service, it's infrequent. It doesn't cost an arm and a leg. (How expensive can pee be?) But be careful storing a jug of the stuff. I was carrying a partial jug in my storage area, and it fell over (and wasn't noticed for some time). It dripped (it has no particular odor) and has left a "chunk" of crystalized stuff in the carpet and has proven difficult to clean up. In the future, I'll only carry a jug that's fully sealed by the factory, but since the stuff is pretty easy to find and I have plenty of warning, I'll probably not carry a jug again.
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  #14  
Old 02-26-2014
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Its not just the DEF,its all the rest of the systems that bother me.
The DEF is the easy part.
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  #15  
Old 02-26-2014
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Lee Davis Lee Davis is offline
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Default ZLD Waste Discharger

I checked that link to the ZLD invention that discharges the waste into the exhaust system. The problem I see is that if we are staying someplace for a week, someone at the campground might complain about the stuff dripping out of my exhaust pipe after about day 3.
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  #16  
Old 02-26-2014
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Cummins doesn't use DEF. BUT, look at the cat convertor under a Dodge pickup. I'm wondering what is under a class 8 vehicle. Glad my bird is old and doesn't have that stuff. Imagine the cost of maintaining these new buses. Now I know why we only have one or engine manufacturers in motorhomes.
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  #17  
Old 02-26-2014
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Cummins does use DEF. ALL Dodge pickups now are running DEF. Our 2 newest buses are THOMAS Pushers with CUMMINS ISC motors and so far
They have done well but neither have 20,000 miles yet.
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Last edited by biobug; 02-26-2014 at 08:55 PM.
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  #18  
Old 02-26-2014
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Those who saw my build thread saw that the entire DEF, DPF and EGR can be removed from these late model engines (disclaimer: for off road use only)
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  #19  
Old 02-26-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morefire View Post
Those who saw my build thread saw that the entire DEF, DPF and EGR can be removed from these late model engines (disclaimer: for off road use only)
In a repower situation,yes.
As a new purchase,new coach,you would be crazy to do it!
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  #20  
Old 02-26-2014
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Last I heard the fine for removing any EPA mandated pollution controls begins at $20,000. Not a gamble I'd be willing to take.
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