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Engine Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's engine.

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  #1  
Old 08-10-2011
Jim Magowan Jim Magowan is offline
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Default Fan clutch sensor location

Last summer, after a lot of overheating problems, we replaced thermostats, water pump etc. Finally got the engine to stay below 200 degrees, most of the time, but have to keep the manual fan switch turned on all the time. If the fan is not turned on she heats up right away.

Since the fan (clutch) is not coming on when the engine starts to get hot we figured there is a sensor not working. WE could not find the sensor and now the Bird has been in the shop for a week and they still have not found the sensor.

Can anyone tell us where the fan (clutch) sensor is or how to get the fan to engage when the engine gets hot?
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  #2  
Old 08-10-2011
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Buckeye Bird Buckeye Bird is offline
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Not sure on the 3208 in an SP, but on the FC's the fan temp sensor/switch is to the right side of the front of the engine.
Here is a picture from John Finn's site.

http://www.pbase.com/iamflagman/image/135296779

What you are looking for is labeled Horton Thermoswitch

If you are having to run the fan all of the time to keep under 200, I think you have some other problems.
I would normally recommend a flush and rod out of the radiator........but with the problem's John has been having I would be very cautious before I proceed.
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  #3  
Old 08-10-2011
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Bill Pape Bill Pape is offline
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Jim, we have the same 3208T,

top of the engine between the injection pump and the air compressor, two wires
Horton # 993605, 195 degrees, it looks like this,,,

http://www.fleetoilandtrucksupply.co...0-5005/Product
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Old 08-11-2011
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Have you cleaned the outside of the radiator and CAC? Mine gets fouled periodically with dirt and oil and will raise temps, most noticeably going up hills.
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  #5  
Old 08-11-2011
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rwoody rwoody is offline
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jim

its right there like johns picture

except the mtrs in the back !!!!!!!hard to see unless the rad is swung out
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  #6  
Old 08-11-2011
Jim Magowan Jim Magowan is offline
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Thanks for teh help. I think part of the problem was that they didn't know it had a swing out radiator (they overhauled the fan several years ago so it never occurred to me that they didn't know abot the radiator).

They tested the switch (sensor) and it is O.K. This is puzzzling. When I drove with hte overide on it stayed around 190 to 200 depending on terrain. When I turned off hte overide it went up to 215+ right away. Turn on hte overide and it came right down.

Now the guys say the guage is not working (pegged). The guage was working just fine when I took it in. My guess would be that n the process of trying to figure out where the switch was they did something to the wiring. Would reversing hte wires on hte guage cause it to peg?



It is frustrating to find that people who work as mechanics cannot figure out simple things.
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Old 08-11-2011
cmillsap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rselin View Post
Have you cleaned the outside of the radiator and CAC? Mine gets fouled periodically with dirt and oil and will raise temps, most noticeably going up hills.
On the pushers with the rear radiator, the engine slobber tube tends to to drip oil. In turn, that oily mess is then blown into the radiator where it proceeds to get the radiator fins dirty and reduces the radiator's ability to transfer the generated heat in the coolant to the air.

Cleaning the radiator fins with a degreaser and hot water and redirecting that slobber tube to prevent this will solve the problem. A hose attached to the slobber tube and directed to the outside of the air to radiator path is the way most owners have solved the problem.
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Old 08-11-2011
Jim Magowan Jim Magowan is offline
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The radiator is new; installed last summer. Several years ago I installed a slobber tube extension so the oil drips below the bumper. I circumcised the original slobber tube to get the right height, put a short piece of PVC tubing, a 90 degree elbow and a longer piece of PVC to extend it out to the bumper. Works great.

My neighbor has a 2000 or so Tradewinds that he bought new. Someone told him that it would start overheating at about 35k miles. Just like clockwork, about 35K it started overheating so he cleaned it out and installed a diverter to keep the oil off. Makes you wonder. The parts for mine cost less than $5, probably more like $2.50. If I were doing a number of them I could cut hte parts and install them in about 10 minutes.

In 1990 this coach cost over $400,000. You would think they would figure out how to keep the radiator from fouling with oil. No rocket science here.
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  #9  
Old 08-12-2011
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Default Engine water temperature gauge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Magowan View Post
Thanks for teh help. I think part of the problem was that they didn't know it had a swing out radiator (they overhauled the fan several years ago so it never occurred to me that they didn't know abot the radiator).
They tested the switch (sensor) and it is O.K. This is puzzzling. When I drove with hte overide on it stayed around 190 to 200 depending on terrain. When I turned off hte overide it went up to 215+ right away. Turn on hte overide and it came right down.
Now the guys say the guage is not working (pegged). The guage was working just fine when I took it in. My guess would be that n the process of trying to figure out where the switch was they did something to the wiring. Would reversing hte wires on hte guage cause it to peg?
It is frustrating to find that people who work as mechanics cannot figure out simple things.

Jim Magowan
90 36 SP
Anchorage AK
 
Hi Jim,

If they messed with the sending unit for the water temperature gauge or the wire that’s attached to it and they happened to temporarily short it to ground or temporarily unwire it I don’t see where that would have hurt anything. But… if they left it “grounded” or “open”, then a pegged gauge would be the expected result.

If they happened to put +12 volts on the sender or the wire going to the gauge then I think that might have caused some damage.

Which way is the meter pegged - low or high?

The following is based on your 90 SP having the same 100 to 260 degree water temperature gauge as the 91 PT’s (BB part #1078823). If yours is different let me know.

If the water temperature sender or the wire going to it is shorted to ground the gauge should be reading about a half inch past the 260 degree mark. If the sender or the wire going to it is “open” then the gauge should be reading about ¼ inch below the 100 degree mark. (By the way these are also the readings you should get if you test the gauge the way Teleflex recommends).

I recently worked on a fellow WOG members 91 PT that had a pegged needle on the oil pressure gauge. When I tested the gauge I found that it was defective.

After I replaced his gauge I took the old one apart to see what was wrong with it and I found that the needle was split where it mounts on the shaft. The needle had slipped on the shaft so even though the gauge was electrically working right, the reading was wrong.

During all your work to find the cause of those elevated engine temperatures were you somewhere along the line able to verify that the gauge was telling the truth? Keep in mind that senders and gauges do go bad and give false readings sometimes.
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  #10  
Old 08-13-2011
Jim Magowan Jim Magowan is offline
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Thanks John. I have passed your message on to the shop foreman. If nothing else, the part number may help. They called Blue Bird and were referred to Coachcraft (big surprise, Blue Bird not being able to help with parts). I wonder how many of these guages were used in buses?

After we bought our Bird I was surprised at the inability of the folks in Ft. Valley to make simple repairs and when I went into Trailercraft, the Anchorage BB dealer, and mentioned getting parts from BB they rolled their eyes and said, "Good Luck!"). Sounds like all they do now is say go to Coachcraft when you say Wanderlodge.

Part of the problem is that no one knows how to use the yucky gray stuff between their ears. If you don't have a number they don't know what you are talking about. We had to replace a ball joint fitting on the front end. After a week of not being able to get a part from BB because they couldn't figure out what it was we took the old one in to Freightliner and they matched it with one on the shelf. A common truck part.

It looks to me as though they are taking everything they learned from bankrupting Wanderlodge and using it on the rest of the Blue Bird line. Used to be all school buses in Anchorage were BB. Now none are. Thomas and other companies, but no new Blue Birds.

I am relatively confident the guages were working pretty well. The oil and water temperatures tracked pretty well. When the water temp went up and I turned the fan on the water temp would drop fairly quickly and the oil would follow, but took longer. When running on a flat stretch, the oil and water would pretty well match, once stabilized.

I went over and looked at the guage yesterday. The needle is 'pegged' at about the 4 or 5 o'clock position (a position I had never seen it at before). From your comment it looks like it's shorted to ground.
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