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Generators In this forum we will try to answer any of your questions about the different model generators that can be found on Blue Bird coach's.

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  #21  
Old 02-16-2013
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Rick Rick is offline
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Lee, One of our WOG friends live here in Bellefonte. He was having problems with his ATS in a Prevost. He and I took it apart cleaned the relays put it back together and it still hummed. Roger replaced the faulty relay and all is well. The individual relays can be replaced for less than the complete ATS. Don't recall how much the relay was.
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  #22  
Old 02-17-2013
lfinch lfinch is offline
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Default Transfer Switch Power Measurements

Dan & Cindy,
In the picture that you attached to your e-mail, my 2003 M380 seems to have the same switch but in a different location in the coach.

The Problem: I only have one leg of 120vac indicated on the meters over the door with either shore power or generator.

Transfer Switch Box Measurements: There does not appear to be any loose connections or burnt wires. With shore power "on" and using the picture you posted, there is 120vac on the top 2 terminals and the bottom two terminals - 0vac on the middle two terminals on the relay on the left in your picture. What should I have?

Normal Operation: What voltage should appear on which terminals with shore power? i.e., how does this switch work????
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  #23  
Old 02-17-2013
cmillsap
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Lee,
First check the two fuses on the exterior sides of the Auto Transfer switch.

The left relay is the shore power relay. On shore power there should be power on both contacts when that relay is energized. To isolate the problem, disconnect the shore power and then start the generator. The right side relay will then be energized and the left side relay de-energized. Now you should have power on both contacts on the right side relay.
An easy way to check there for power is use a Volt Meter with one leg to ground and the other leg to each of the two relay contacts.

You can check power with a volt meter on the terminal blocks above after the relays, you should have 120v between the White (neutral) & Black wire and between the White (neutral) and the Red wire. You should also have 240V between the Black and Red wire. If you have power on the terminal block above then the ATF is working properly on the generator power.

Then check inside to see if the same condition of power only on one leg still exists. If so, then the problem is in the circuit after the ATF. If you are getting power on both legs when on generator power but only one one leg when on shore power then the problem is isolated to the shore power circuit which may be in the shore power cord. I would look there first and if that's ok, we can look at the incoming shore power connections in the ATF.

Please be careful as you are working with a “HOT” system. If you are not familiar with how to do the above, get a qualified electrician to do it for you

Chuck

Last edited by cmillsap; 02-17-2013 at 08:26 PM.
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  #24  
Old 02-17-2013
Dan & Cindy Dan & Cindy is offline
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Default M380 transfer switch

Lee, When you are on shore power, it travels from the transfer switch shore power terminals Hot 1, Hot 2 to the left relay contacts and on to the Load Panel Hot 1 and Hot 2 terminals. See the attached schematic found on the inside transfer switch cover.

Note I have to invert the schematic to match the physical installation in my M380. Also the schematic does not show the two fuses in the red and black conductors running from the Load Panel Hot 1 & Hot 2 terminals to the SO cord on the left hand top side of the enclosure. The schematic also fails to show the two small red and two small red/black conductors running from the Shore Power Hot 1, Hot 2 an neutral terminals to the small packoff on the lower left side of the enclosure.

It looks like the right relay takes care of the neutral switching.

I checked the voltages inside the transfer switch enclosure while it was connected to shore power and recorded that info for you which can be seen in the second and third attachments.

I don't know where the power to the voltmeters originates. I pulled my voltmeter/amp meter panel and found two very heavy SO cords attached to the voltmeters leading into the area behind the front TV monitor. Have you checked for power at the back of your voltmeter? If you have 120 VAC power everywhere, maybe the meter is bad.

Hope this helps.
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  #25  
Old 02-17-2013
cmillsap
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That's correct,Dan, The right relay controls the neturals but on gen power he should have power on the outside contacts of that relay. I was trying not to confuse him anymore than I already have.

Chuck
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  #26  
Old 02-17-2013
cmillsap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan & Cindy View Post
Lee, When you are on shore power, it travels from the transfer switch shore power terminals Hot 1, Hot 2 to the left relay contacts and on to the Load Panel Hot 1 and Hot 2 terminals. See the attached schematic found on the inside transfer switch cover.

Note I have to invert the schematic to match the physical installation in my M380. Also the schematic does not show the two fuses in the red and black conductors running from the Load Panel Hot 1 & Hot 2 terminals to the SO cord on the left hand top side of the enclosure. The schematic also fails to show the two small red and two small red/black conductors running from the Shore Power Hot 1, Hot 2 an neutral terminals to the small packoff on the lower left side of the enclosure.

It looks like the right relay takes care of the neutral switching.

I checked the voltages inside the transfer switch enclosure while it was connected to shore power and recorded that info for you which can be seen in the second and third attachments.

I don't know where the power to the voltmeters originates. I pulled my voltmeter/amp meter panel and found two very heavy SO cords attached to the voltmeters leading into the area behind the front TV monitor. Have you checked for power at the back of your voltmeter? If you have 120 VAC power everywhere, maybe the meter is bad.

Hope this helps.
Dan, I suspect the volt meters are probably wired past the main circuit breakers in the rear 120v load panel. I do know a tripped breaker in the load panel will unload the volt meter. I haven't figured out what the purpose of the two fuses are either.
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  #27  
Old 02-18-2013
lfinch lfinch is offline
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WOW! Such knowledgeable and timely help/info. Thanks for the assistance.

After checking the voltages at the terminal block in the ATF, it appears that the ATF is working properly, i.e., there is 120v, on both L1 & L2 "Load" terminals with either shore or generator power (the chart that Chuck sent was invaluable).

Does the L1 & L2 power go from the Load Terminals in the ATF to the breakers in the panel in the bedroom? Seems that I might have a bad L1 breaker (will check, but I wanted to know if there was anything else between the ATF and these breakers).
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  #28  
Old 02-18-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lfinch View Post
WOW! Such knowledgeable and timely help/info. Thanks for the assistance.

After checking the voltages at the terminal block in the ATF, it appears that the ATF is working properly, i.e., there is 120v, on both L1 & L2 "Load" terminals with either shore or generator power (the chart that Chuck sent was invaluable).

Does the L1 & L2 power go from the Load Terminals in the ATF to the breakers in the panel in the bedroom? Seems that I might have a bad L1 breaker (will check, but I wanted to know if there was anything else between the ATF and these breakers).
I'm not aware of anything between the power leads on the terminal board in the ATS and the breakers in the bedroom load center. Are you sure that you are losing power on one leg that runs through the coach? Usually the line loads are distributed throughout the coach. I would think one leg runs the front air conditioner and the other leg runs the rear air conditioner. If both air conditioners run; then you should have power throughout the coach on both legs but I would also check the outlets on both sides of the coach to be sure or try powering up many of the 120V appliances in the coach. If you have power everywhere; that probably means the voltmeter is not working or for some reason is not being powered up. If one of the air conditioners doesn't work or you are still losing power to some appliances or outlets; it may be the breaker. Take the front panel off the load center and check the breaker terminals on both breakers. Sometimes the breakers look like they are not tripped and need to be pushed down hard toward the off position to get them to reset properly.

Chuck
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  #29  
Old 02-18-2013
lfinch lfinch is offline
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Default Loss of L1 (Shore power & Generator)

Thanks for all your help!
Isolated the problem to a faulty "AC1 Meter" Breaker in the bedroom power distribution panel.
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  #30  
Old 02-18-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lfinch View Post
Thanks for all your help!
Isolated the problem to a faulty "AC1 Meter" Breaker in the bedroom power distribution panel.
Excellent, Lee, Glad you found the problem.........

Chuck
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