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M380 (Unique Issues) If you have a unique issue with your M380 model coach and it can't be answered in one of the other forums here, then this is where you can list it.....list your M380 Parts here too.

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  #121  
Old 06-19-2012
Robert Britton Robert Britton is offline
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[QUOTE=Dennis;165938]I talked to the Cummins Engineer again today - He explained further that the problem began when Cummins started shipping the new Pegasis block around the 2nd to 3rd quarter of 2003.

He states the problem began with the new Pegasis block, 2nd or 3rd quarter of 2003...I think the engines that blew a head gasket had manufacture dates before 2003?
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Robert in Hollister, CA
Marathon XL40
Previously Owned; 04 M380, 88 PT-38, 87FC, 95 Weekender "Baby Bird"
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  #122  
Old 06-19-2012
davidmbrady
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Dennis,

Clearly there's no need to pull engine heads if all we have to do is identify the casting and check the transmission cooler plumbing. By the way, how can owners identify a Pegasus engine casting? Maybe next time you talk to your engineer you can ask him what the shortcomings are of the independent shops that prevents them from re-installing Cummins heads as well as factory. Perhaps Cummins needs to supply components that allow the indies to do their job.
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  #123  
Old 06-20-2012
cmillsap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
I talked to the Cummins Engineer again today - he was on vacation. He told me that my engine was manufacturered on Feb. 21, 2003 (please add that the spread sheet info I already provided.) He told me that I have the Encore Block which preceeded the Pegasis Block and it is not likely I will have a blown headgasket problem provided BB plumbed the engine correctly which is probably the case. He explained further that the problem began when Cummins started shipping the new Pegasis block around the 2nd to 3rd quarter of 2003. It was then that BB plumbed the Pegasis block the same way they did the Encore block whch restricted the cooling and overheated the #6 cylendar. It had to do with the TKO which is a torque converter. If I understood him correctly BB made an extra cooling loop outside the engine which impacted the cooling to the block. I asked how the OEM of the fire engines managed to fix the problem - since he told me there is no practical fix - and he told me it all boils down to money e.g. anything can be fixed if you are willing to spend enough money on it. He is still going to come out and look at how my engine is plumbed and at my request he is willing participate in a conference call with any and all the members of this Forum so you will have the opportunity for Q&A directly with him. He is busy for the next two weeks so we are thinking of 3 weeks from now. During this time I will be happy to set up the conference call and give all of you a call in number and code - all I ask is that if the charges for the conference call are costly, those who participate share in the cost.

PS: Once again he and I discuss changing the gasket before something happens and his advice was dead set against it. Other technicians I spoke to told me the same thing. The engine from the manufacturer should never be touched unless absolutely necessary - putting it back together is never as good.
Dennis,

Will you please post the above information to the thread below. It will help let owners check their engine build dates on the spreadshet against the engine build dates that the Cummins engineer told you were suspect.

http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.co...ritical+defect

Chuck
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  #124  
Old 06-20-2012
cmillsap
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No engine build dates recorded on the data spreadsheet are later than 03/2003.
http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.co...ritical+defect
Attached Files
File Type: doc M380 Data Spread Sheet#2.doc (161.0 KB, 97 views)
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  #125  
Old 06-20-2012
Robert Britton Robert Britton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmillsap View Post
No engine build dates recorded on the data spreadsheet are later than 03/2003.
http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.co...ritical+defect
Thats what I was thinking...dosen't fit with what the engineer is talking about
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Marathon XL40
Previously Owned; 04 M380, 88 PT-38, 87FC, 95 Weekender "Baby Bird"
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  #126  
Old 06-21-2012
Dennis Dennis is offline
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There seems to be a lot of information flowing back and forth on this issue which only leads to more questions rather than answers that is why I am willing to set up a conference call with the Cummins engineer - that way those who participate can get direct answers rather than me trying interpret both the questions and the answers. Perhaps the way to do this is for me to set up date and time then publish the call in number and code on this Forum and those of you who want to call in can - fortunately with cell phones you can call in wherever you may be. I would like to get an idea of who wants to participate. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions on this?
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  #127  
Old 12-19-2012
T&Bz T&Bz is offline
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As part of my due diligence on purchasing a M380 I came across this thread.
The last entry that I can find in June, 2012. Is there any more?
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Tom Zaffarano
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just looking
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  #128  
Old 12-19-2012
Dennis Dennis is offline
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Tom,

Only one member asked me to follow up with him when I heard from the Engineer. I called the Engineer several times and he has not returned any of my calls. It could be because he is busy (he travels alot) or it could be that Cummins has told him not to talk about this subject anymore. Frankly I was amazed he was as candid as he was and I could understand Cummins concern for any contingent liability. I do plan on calling again in the New Year and will post here anything I learn. I was somewhat comforted by the data accumulated on this site indicating only 10% of the members experienced the problem - while that is unacceptable at least it is not a higher.
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Dennis Torres
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  #129  
Old 12-19-2012
T&Bz T&Bz is offline
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Dennis
Thank you for getting back
I read through all the messages and was looking for some kind of resolution.
Too bad you didn't get to meet with the Engineer.
Is there any consensus as to the real problem: bad head gasket? cooling
system? or over revving? or ??
Look forward to future posts on the topic
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  #130  
Old 12-19-2012
cmillsap
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Tom,

If you look at the data sheet link in post #125 above, I think you will find that there was not enough participation in the gathering of data to allow anyone to come to any kind of a conclusion regarding whether a blown head gasket on a Cummins ISL 400 engine in a M380 was at extraordinarily high or increased levels as compared to this same engine being used in other motorhomes, busses or trucks.

I will say that (generally speaking) the vast majority of blown head gaskets are caused because the engine overheated. That is normally (by far) the case in all engines that depend on a gasket between the head and the block to seal the cooling system.

Chuck
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