Wanderlodge Owners Group  
BuyByeBlueBird.com
Donate

Go Back   Wanderlodge Owners Group > Mechanic's Corner > M380 (Unique Issues)

M380 (Unique Issues) If you have a unique issue with your M380 model coach and it can't be answered in one of the other forums here, then this is where you can list it.....list your M380 Parts here too.

Site Search:
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 05-15-2012
Dennis Dennis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Malibu
Posts: 841
Default

My reseach into this issue indicates that the head gasket was defective and that Cummins knew this. It appears that rather than do a recall - which they should have done - they figured it would be a lot less costly to only respond to those people who caught on to this fact. Case in point I wrote a letter to Cummins which I would be happy to post (minus the name of the Coach owner for privacy) on behalf of a M380 owner who is part of the Forum. Cummins had originally turn him down, but after reading my letter I was told by the M380 owner Cummins paid 100% for the work.; in his case I think that amount was $5,000. It is my sense Cummins knows that they should have recalled these engines, but since most of the head gaskets blew after the warrantee period they escaped big time even though the warrentee doesn't protect them from a product defect, but most owners don't know about the defect. Proof too was in all cases it was the very same cylinder that blew. I think it was #6,but would have to check my records.
__________________
Dennis Torres
2004 M380
Malibu, California
Email DennisTorresMalibu@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-15-2012
Robert Britton Robert Britton is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hollister, California
Posts: 1,911
Default

Would like to read that letter Dennis!
__________________
Robert in Hollister, CA
Marathon XL40
Previously Owned; 04 M380, 88 PT-38, 87FC, 95 Weekender "Baby Bird"
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-15-2012
Driver's Avatar
Driver Driver is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 555
Default

My father went through something similar with the 5.9L in his '99 PickemUpTruck. Contacting the Regional Cummins Rep, knowing the facts & history (especially other people with identical failures), and sticking to your guns helps.
__________________

Ken - Austin, Texas -
'94 34' Safari Serengeti sold - Mom remarried @71 and they upgraded to a newer Coach w/Slides


(HDT Coach or BMC & Stacker for me in the future.)
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 05-15-2012
Dennis Dennis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Malibu
Posts: 841
Default

Here's a copy of the letter edited for privacy - Smiths is NOT their real name.

July 20, 2010

Mr. Tom Linebarger
President and COO
Cummins
Box 3005
Columbus, IN 47202-3005

Dear Mr. Linebarger,

The purpose of this letter is to ask your help to resolve a matter involving a Cummins engine and my clients Mr. and Mrs. Smith, (the Smiths.) I apologize for bringing this matter to your level of office, but I was unable to find a listing for the appropriate management on the Cummings web site and trust you will direct it as necessary.

The Smiths own a Blue Bird Wanderlodge motor coach powered by a Cummins ISL - 400 engine. The warrantee provided to them by Cummins is for 100,000 miles or 5 years.

On June 6th, 2010 the Smiths started the engine and heard a loud puff of air emanate from the engine compartment repeating at what seemed to be each revolution. After checking all the fluids and not finding any deficiencies they parked the Coach and made arrangements to have it towed on June 27th, 2010, to Southern Plains Cummins in Fort Worth, Texas, the authorized Cummins service center they had been using to service their engine.

On June 6th, 2010, the subject Cummins engine had 44,131 miles on it and 859 engine hours well under the 100,000 miles covered under the warrantee. However, the 5 year period had run on May 6th, 2010, just 49 days before. The Smiths had meticulously maintained the Coach and engine having it serviced by Cummins throughout their ownership.

Dismayed at this unfortunate event the Smiths being members of an on-line community of Wanderlodge owners shared their story by posting the details on the Wanderlodge Owners Group (WOG) web site. To the Smiths amazement one of the members who owns the same model coach with the same model engine responded that he had a similar event in the fall of 2009 when passing through central Missouri. This member J.L. Haney (Haney) (his posted testimony is included herein), took his coach to the nearest authorized Cummins service center MHC-Kenworth in Columbia, Mo. (their invoice is included herein). Haney conveyed to the Smiths that the problem was a blown head gasket in the #6 cylinder caused by a manufacturing defect in the head gasket and that the Cummins dealer was “adamant that the problem was known to Cummins and that we (Haney) were not the first ISL to have this problem.”

Further another member of the WOG commented that he had heard of at least one other member who had had the same experience.

Haney went on to describe his experience in close detail to the Smiths to the extent that when the Smiths called their Cummins service center Southern Plains and told the service technician the details of what he was likely to find, where to find it, and the groove markings on the cylinder head etc. the technician subsequently relayed his utter amazement when he found exactly what the Smiths had described exclaiming “how did you know that?”

The Smiths then called MHC Kenworth in Columbia the Cummings service center that worked on Haney’s engine and spoke to the service manager who referred them to “my Cummins Engine expert Billy.” Billy told the Smiths “that the Cummins ISL- 400 had a poorly manufactured fire ring (head gasket) and that he had seen a lot of them fail, but no recall had been issued by Cummins”, further commenting that Cummins should have done a recall, but chose to handle the situation on a one-off basis. He told them too that the fire ring problem was later resolved by the manufacturer. He went on to say that there was a weak spot in the fire ring and they would break creating a small hole and over a period of time the hot gasses would wear a groove in the head – and when the groove got big enough the head would have to be replaced which was the case with both Haney and the Smiths.

Understandably the Smiths were very upset. They made a request to Southern Plains Cummins that given this information the head gasket replacement repair be covered under the Cummins warranty. This request was turned down citing the 49 days out of warrantee coverage.

The Smiths then contacted me to intercede on their behalf. In the interim I have asked them to refrain from pursuing the matter on their own including contacting the hot lines of the numerous RV organizations and on-line groups of which they are members such as the Family Motor Coach Association (FMCA), The Good Sams; Camping World, Motor Home Hot Line; Yahoo Diesels RV Forum and several others besides the already mentioned WOG.


The Smiths had no choice but to pay the Southern Plains repair bill for the blown head gasket in the amount $5,275.24 (see the enclosed invoice) in order to retrieve their motor coach. I believe after you investigate and review the facts of this case, you will agree that given the circumstances Cummins should honor their warrantee and return the money paid by Smiths.

Thank you in advance for your help in resolving this matter. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Sincerely,


Dennis Torres

Enc:
  • Copy of Southern Plains Cummins Invoice No. 007-75182, 2 Pages
  • Copy of WOG Posting by J.L. Haney
  • Copy of Denial of Claim Policy 46256091
  • Copy of Haney Invoice No. R26370035271 MHC Kenworth Cummins Service Center, 2 pages

__________________
Dennis Torres
2004 M380
Malibu, California
Email DennisTorresMalibu@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 05-15-2012
Dan & Cindy Dan & Cindy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Broussard
Posts: 688
Default ISL engine defect

Dennis, thanks for publishing the letter and educating us. I will be vigilant in monitoring my #6 cylinder and hope the letter is never needed.

Thanks again!
__________________
Dan & Cindy
2004 M-380
Broussard, Louisiana
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 05-15-2012
Dennis Dennis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Malibu
Posts: 841
Default

Dan, I am watching mine too. Several years ago Mercedes Benz made the same decision and handled matters on a one-off basis. I called them to task and got paid, but I would bet most others did not and they saved a lot of money. It is a pity that money not morasl rule some of these business leaders. The value of this Forum is that we can help one another. I know I have gain much from the Forum and an happy to give back whenever I can.
__________________
Dennis Torres
2004 M380
Malibu, California
Email DennisTorresMalibu@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 05-16-2012
lnchaffin lnchaffin is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Aurora
Posts: 169
Default

I'm "Mr. Smith"! That cracked me up Dennis. Thanks again for helping me out back then. Things are better with the coach now and it is almost back to normal after Cummins Southerns Plains in Fort Worth did 37,000 dollars worth of damage to her.
DON'T EVER TAKE YOUR COACH TO HAVE IT WORKED ON THERE!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Lloyd Chaffin
2004 M380
Haslet, TX
lloyd.chaffin@att.net
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 05-16-2012
Dennis Dennis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Malibu
Posts: 841
Default

Hi Lloyd, always good to hear from you. I didn't want to publish your name without getting the okay from you first so Mr. Smith did the trick. I would love to see photos of your new interior especially how you mounted the new TVs and related equipment. BTW, given the subject of this thread would any of you recommend changing the head gasket as a preventative measure? How much do you think that would cost?
__________________
Dennis Torres
2004 M380
Malibu, California
Email DennisTorresMalibu@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 05-16-2012
davidmbrady
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Pardon my naive question, but does anyone know if there's been actual changes or improvements made to the head gasket? IOW's, has anyone compared a failed gasket to the new one being installed. I'm just wondering if this is going to be a recurring problem.

Is the root cause faulty head bolts, or faulty cylinder head, or faulty head gasket, or faulty installation, or is the root cause unknown?

Great to hear from you Lloyd!
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 05-16-2012
Dennis Dennis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Malibu
Posts: 841
Default

It was my understanding that the head gasket in question was defective from the manufacturer (a vendor to Cummins) and that the defect was corrected after discovery.
__________________
Dennis Torres
2004 M380
Malibu, California
Email DennisTorresMalibu@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
M380 INFORMATION iamflagman M380 (Unique Issues) 14 08-13-2012 10:34 PM
Is Spelling Important?? cmillsap Under The Awning 9 03-29-2011 12:40 AM
Important please read before you buy!! iamflagman Buying a Wanderlodge, a Bluebird or any RV 1 01-08-2009 10:10 AM

Web Search:

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.