Wanderlodge Owners Group  
BuyByeBlueBird.com
Donate

Go Back   Wanderlodge Owners Group > Mechanic's Corner > HVAC, Air Conditioners, Aqua Hot, Primus, Webasto, Chassis Heaters, Furnaces and Water Heaters

HVAC, Air Conditioners, Aqua Hot, Primus, Webasto, Chassis Heaters, Furnaces and Water Heaters Questions and information about the wide variety of Heating and Air Conditioning as well as Water Heater systems available are discussed here.

Site Search:
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 04-21-2010
G_man's Avatar
G_man G_man is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Litchfield
Posts: 786
Default M450 Webasto

Well, I got the coach home and the learning process is beginning. The manuals are pretty good so far but, as always, leave some things to figure out on your own. Anybody have experience with the Webasto hydronic system in the M450's? I know the AquaHot system pretty well but this setup is quite different. Any suggestions for proper operation or tips would be appreciated. Thanks!
__________________
Rich D. Former Owner; '90 PT40, '99LXi43 & '06 M450 LXi (CT)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-21-2010
davidmbrady
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Rich,

Once again, congrats on the new coach.

Don't want to derail your thread, but how's the driving experience? I know you've owned a wide variety of Wanderlodges, how does the 450 stack up?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-21-2010
G_man's Avatar
G_man G_man is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Litchfield
Posts: 786
Default

The extra wheelbase (+37") and the independant front suspension make for a fantastic ride. The active air suspension adds greatly as well. The coach is nice and tight, no rattles or squeeks. I didn't know what to expect from the slides but it is as if they are not there.
__________________
Rich D. Former Owner; '90 PT40, '99LXi43 & '06 M450 LXi (CT)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-22-2010
E Johnson E Johnson is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Forsyth
Posts: 16
Default

I can help with any questions you may have regarding the Webasto system. Also, there was an upgrade that I had just released prior to WL being sold that will allow the coolant to bypass the engine during internal heating. The upside to this change is that the boiler will not use as much fuel. The downside is that the boiler will cycle more frequently. Let me know how I can help.

Regarding your other post, I'm glad you appreciate the ride quality of the 450! I spent alot of time with Meritor, Hadley, & Koni working out all the issues. My team always hated test driving with me, as I tended to put the 450's through my own testing! You will be amazed at the overall performance of not only the interstate ride, but also cornering and evasive manuevering (actually, I hope you never have to find out!)

Erik
__________________
Erik Johnson
"Busman all my life"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-22-2010
G_man's Avatar
G_man G_man is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Litchfield
Posts: 786
Default

Erik,

Thanks for the reply and offer of help. This coach has just had Phase 2 & 3 of the recalls completed. The further weight reduction, larger genberator coolant reservoir and 950 cfm fan, access panel on the other side of the generator, electrical fuse block upgrades, etc. are now all done.

I don't know if it has had (Body #462) the hydronic bypass that you mentioned done. Allan Barbee said that the engine/heat sink was needed to prevent short cycling of the 80K Webasto. I suppose that when I fire it up I can check the engine temp and find out.

There was some confusion by the tech who did the walk through with me regarding whether or not the Webasto (or engine) heats the water in the 10 gallon electric tank (or going to it). I am still confused on whether the 10 gallon tank heater and the Webasto domestic hot water loop are interconnected in any way.

Lot's to learn but sure is fun! Thanks again.
__________________
Rich D. Former Owner; '90 PT40, '99LXi43 & '06 M450 LXi (CT)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-22-2010
b1gsur b1gsur is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Marcos
Posts: 439
Default

Erik

I would like to make that Wabasto change you mentioned to bypass the engine. Do you have a change plan with parts?

Why would Allen say the engine needs to be in the circuit as a heat sink?

Thanks
Dan
__________________
Dan & Cindy Sunderland
2005 450 LXi
Toad 2016 F150 4WD Lariat Super Crew
San Marcos, CA


Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-22-2010
G_man's Avatar
G_man G_man is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Litchfield
Posts: 786
Default

Dan,

The way it was explained to me is that the Blue Bird hydronic system does not have a large boiler like the AquaHot does. If the engine is removed from the loop the 80,000 BTU Webasto will "short cycle" as there is not enough liquid being heated and what is there will heat to max very quickly causing the Webasto to shut off. It, being limited, will also cool more rapidly, thus the short cycling.
Again, this is what I was told and have no firsthand knowledge yet.
__________________
Rich D. Former Owner; '90 PT40, '99LXi43 & '06 M450 LXi (CT)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-23-2010
E Johnson E Johnson is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Forsyth
Posts: 16
Default

It's actually a larger boiler, but does not have the reservoir capacity of the Aquahot.

There is a way to isolate the engine package from the the Webasto already installed. This would allow to you to observe the difference in cycle times before you commit to making the change.

Remove the stainless steel enclosure from the heating system in the bay. Once you have access, you will see the supply & return manifolds located above the webasto. These are stainless steel square tubes with several lines extending from the top. One is the supply, the other is the return. You will notice one supply and one return line that are standard heater hose (I believe they are blue silicone). Where they enter the manifolds there should be a quarter turn ball valve (one on each). These are the lines that circulate coolant to & from the engine package.

Close these valves. You have now isolated the engine from the heating system.

Start the heating system as you normally would. Going back to the heating system, you will hear the circulating pump running and depending on the coolant temperature in the system, the boiler firing. The pump has a somewhat high pitch and the boiler has a low rumble. If you are not sure that the boiler is firing, see if there is exhaust coming from the large exhaust pipe on the Drivers side. You can use a watch to time the cycling.

Cycle times will vary based on ambient temp., amount of interior heating required, domestic water heating, etc. YOU WILL IN NO WAY DAMAGE THE HEATER BY DOING THIS!

If you determine that this is not an issue, I can sketch up a diagram to add a solenoid valve. The design change also included a program change in the multiplex system that actuated the valve using the dash-mounted engine preheat switch as a true engine preheat and also actuated the valve when the engine is running to provide interior heat & domestic water heating while underway from the engine. Do any Service centers have the ability to re-program?

Try the above procedure with both the valves in the open & closed positions and you will note the cycle time difference.

Erik
__________________
Erik Johnson
"Busman all my life"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-23-2010
E Johnson E Johnson is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Forsyth
Posts: 16
Default

Regarding the interconnection between the electric water heater & the Webasto, I believe the heated domestic water output for the boiler is piped into the electric water heater prior to being piped to the interior. This allows for owners choice of water heating. Bear in mind that the electric unit will only provide several gallons of tempered water while the Webasto will provide continuous hot water. So, if you enjoy long, hot showers, turn on the boiler!

Erik
__________________
Erik Johnson
"Busman all my life"
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-23-2010
G_man's Avatar
G_man G_man is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Litchfield
Posts: 786
Default

Erik, Thank you so much! I am printing your articles and will keep them in my "To Do" folder.
__________________
Rich D. Former Owner; '90 PT40, '99LXi43 & '06 M450 LXi (CT)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Webasto? gcyeaw HVAC, Air Conditioners, Aqua Hot, Primus, Webasto, Chassis Heaters, Furnaces and Water Heaters 78 11-04-2013 01:57 PM
WEBASTO NOW WORKING!!!!! JackandLiz HVAC, Air Conditioners, Aqua Hot, Primus, Webasto, Chassis Heaters, Furnaces and Water Heaters 6 01-17-2010 11:25 AM
New Webasto For Sale Lee Davis HVAC, Air Conditioners, Aqua Hot, Primus, Webasto, Chassis Heaters, Furnaces and Water Heaters 12 12-03-2009 10:12 PM
primus vs. webasto ? dennis hight General 8 11-30-2009 12:49 PM
Webasto Stephen HVAC, Air Conditioners, Aqua Hot, Primus, Webasto, Chassis Heaters, Furnaces and Water Heaters 0 06-19-2009 01:57 AM

Web Search:

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.