Wanderlodge Owners Group  
BuyByeBlueBird.com
Donate

Go Back   Wanderlodge Owners Group > Mechanic's Corner > Engine

Engine Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's engine.

Site Search:
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-18-2011
1derer 1derer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: tucson
Posts: 377
Default cummins 8.3 turbo - priming when out of fuel

So, having resorted to stopping this unstoppable motor by denying it fuel, I now come to the matter of: how do I get it going again? It turns over, but there's no fuel in it or in the main fuel filter that served as the drain for the fuel.

Having drained the motor of fuel, and gotten all the wires reconnected that I previously disconnected, how do I get the motor to start again? The starter turns over, but the 10 gall of fuel I just added apparently hasn't made its way to the motor. How do you prime this engine?

The suggestion of one fellow at Auragen to leave the ignition key turned to on for a bit hasn't done the job. So maybe there's no self priming pump?
What to do ....

PS - the point of this outing has been to get an Auragen generator installed, but so far all I've accomplished is soiling their parking lot. Neither they nor I can wait to move this drippy bus away from their front door so we can clean up that area too. (The Auragen install is a separate story to be told later.
__________________
1derer
'75 FC Cummins 8.3
Tucson, AZ
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-18-2011
Buckeye Bird's Avatar
Buckeye Bird Buckeye Bird is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Lancaster
Posts: 2,371
Default

I am an FC owner and a new (to me) BMC owner (with 8.3 Cummins), so I am no expert here, and I am not sure which 8.3 you have or how many fuel filters you have, BUT I think if you take off all of the fuel filters that you have and fill them with diesel or ATF and put them back on you should be able to get it started. My understanding is that the Cummins does not need "bled" like a Cat 3208 does, so just filling them up should do the job. Hopefully Woody will chime in as well.
__________________
Dan & Janet
Buckeye Bird II
1994 BMC 37'
2012 Wrangler Unlimited
Lancaster, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-18-2011
1derer 1derer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: tucson
Posts: 377
Default

3 filters. Motor is cummins 6CTA-8.3, rated 250hp made in '88 in-line 6. I just called mechanic who replaced the filters before I set out on this venture to tell me where they are, (proximate cause of the replacement being his belief that doing so would cure the motor of fuel starvation, symptom of which was lack of a steady hum accelerating either still or in motion).
He tells me I probably only need to fill the one I drained. He says an electric transfer pump would be nice in this situation. I will try refilling this filter by hand and note here if it works. If this works, it seems to me that a sufficient denial of fuel to the motor to make it stop could have been simply removing this filter (though I think that might have been challenging, maybe even dangerous, in the dark with the engine hot and running.
__________________
1derer
'75 FC Cummins 8.3
Tucson, AZ

Last edited by 1derer; 07-18-2011 at 06:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-18-2011
rwoody's Avatar
rwoody rwoody is offline
ANOTHER REDNECK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pleasanton
Posts: 5,610
Default

On the left side of the motor there is your fuel pump on the end of it you will find a primer piston--turn it and pump it up and down until it starts to get tight then crank it------if that dont work-----

To prime the fuel system eaiser, you need to remove both of the fuel filters. fill the filters with clean diesel,and reinstall filter. there should be a little 5/16 head plug above the fuel filters (they are on driver side back of engine)in the return line.
To prime the system, you pump on the piston (fuel pump is driver side below filters) untill no air comes out of the plug.. then if it dont start-------



Sometimes if there is air in the system after priming the filter, you may need to bleed the system, to do this you need a proper sized wrench to crack open the fuel line for the #1 injector.
after cracking this open about 1/2-3/4 turn, crank engine with foot on floor every time. The engine will run ruff and under powered and smoke for a bit but dont stop it now~!once engine is running, watch for diesel to squirt out of opened line,and listen for engine to start to run more smooth
once engine reaches this point, re tighten fuel line so it no longer leaks.
the engine will then purge any other air in the system and will run smooth and properly.
__________________
RWoody
2003 LX Single Slide Hauling Wood 5
2 miles east from Texas Highway 37-97
Just a Hobby Shop now-Bird Repairs upon Appt and my Schedule -USAR Retired
Pleasanton Tx 78064
Do not use PM... please use
rwoody@fullnet.net
http://www.ebay.com/usr/woody19571

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-18-2011
rwoody's Avatar
rwoody rwoody is offline
ANOTHER REDNECK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pleasanton
Posts: 5,610
Default

http://www.serenitysys.com/beaver/re...uel_filter.htm
__________________
RWoody
2003 LX Single Slide Hauling Wood 5
2 miles east from Texas Highway 37-97
Just a Hobby Shop now-Bird Repairs upon Appt and my Schedule -USAR Retired
Pleasanton Tx 78064
Do not use PM... please use
rwoody@fullnet.net
http://www.ebay.com/usr/woody19571

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-19-2011
1derer 1derer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: tucson
Posts: 377
Default

Filled all 3 filters. Still no start. Haven't tried Woody's other ideas yet as it's now dark. Something new though: When I connect the two battery banks (house & starting), the starter makes a whirring sound. This without turning the ignition key. When I turn the ignition key with the battery banks connected, there's no starter turnover. - However, with the battery banks isolated, when I turn the ignition key there's an honest attempt at starter turnover, only no ignition. (I know: this vehicle didn't come with the battery bank functions separated since originally equipped it had only one battery bank. I had this improvement made since purchase.)

In my attempt to stop the unstoppable motor, I cut the starter wire by mistake. But I've since reconnected it. So it's the same now, except maybe the act of cutting it (albeit with the starter battery bank cables removed from the starting batteries) screwed it up somehow?

Also, the Tucson mechanics who took a swing at installing the Auragen installed the pto to run it. During this maiden voyage, the pto indicator lite on the dash came on and stayed on whether or not the pto was engaged, even without the ignition key in and even without the battery banks being connected. (As if maybe it was hooked directly to some battery bank). (It came on by itself with a glimmer about a hundred miles after I left their garage, then increased in brightness and stayed bright from then on.)

Any competent Wanderlodge/bluebird electric dude in LA area you'd recommend? Beginning to get bummed out....
__________________
1derer
'75 FC Cummins 8.3
Tucson, AZ

Last edited by 1derer; 07-19-2011 at 09:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-19-2011
Spike45's Avatar
Spike45 Spike45 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cookeville
Posts: 106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1derer View Post
So, having resorted to stopping this unstoppable motor by denying it fuel, I now come to the matter of: how do I get it going again? It turns over, but there's no fuel in it or in the main fuel filter that served as the drain for the fuel.

Having drained the motor of fuel, and gotten all the wires reconnected that I previously disconnected, how do I get the motor to start again? The starter turns over, but the 10 gall of fuel I just added apparently hasn't made its way to the motor. How do you prime this engine?

The suggestion of one fellow at Auragen to leave the ignition key turned to on for a bit hasn't done the job. So maybe there's no self priming pump?
What to do ....

PS - the point of this outing has been to get an Auragen generator installed, but so far all I've accomplished is soiling their parking lot. Neither they nor I can wait to move this drippy bus away from their front door so we can clean up that area too. (The Auragen install is a separate story to be told later.
For engines that do not have an electric priming pump, Cummins has always recommended prefilling the fuel filter(s) before installation. At the moment it sounds like you have an injection system that has a lot of air in it. It is not going to start. You will have to loosen some fuel fittings to allow the lift pump to push air out of the system. You may have to refill the filters again after purging air. In a normal fuel filter service, there is sufficient fuel in the newly installed prefilled filters to allow the engine to start. It will run rough and put out white smoke until the air purges from the pressure side of the lift pump and injection pump and lines.

You can speed the priming by applying low air pressure to the fuel tank vent hole in the cap. Use no more than 3 PSI as you do not want to deform the tank walls. That head pressure will push the fuel into the filter(s). You may need to loosen a fitting after the last filter to allow air to purge from that point.

You may be at the point of needing "the hook" to haul it to a service shop to get the system bled out and restarted.
__________________
Gary Spires (W9GAS)
Retired Cummins (Fleetguard) Service Engineer
http://spiresart.zenfolio.com
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-19-2011
1derer 1derer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: tucson
Posts: 377
Default Getting back to normal and staying there ....

Thanks to everybody for telling me how to get this baby going again.
I should point out that this would not have been a problem if I'd known in advance of the motor not stopping how to shut it off without completely draining it of fuel (though I suppose this may be helpful also if you run out of fuel some time). So don't be like me: Be prepared and read the string about shutting down a motor that won't stop before you need to do it. (By the way, my motor has a mechanical pump, no bulb).

What got it going again was following the suggestions you all made and resorting to Woody's suggestions for extreme situations, in brief:
1) remove all fuel filters (of course this requires finding them = knowing where they are is even better) and filling them to the brim with fuel and screwing them back on
2) unscrewing the first fuel injector inlet about a turn
3) removing the cap at the fuel fill (that you use at filling stations)
4) repeatedly pushing in the piston on the fuel pump WHILE the ignition key is turned on (but not so far as to make the starter start) and UNTIL you hear a slight squeak type sound from the front of the motor and you keep pushing for awhile after you start to hear this sound and UNTIL you can see fuel coming out of the first fuel injector you loosened the nut of.
I nearly cost myself a tow/service call because I nearly gave up on doing this step long enough
5) flooring the accelerator when turning the ignition key the rest of the way to start the motor.
__________________
1derer
'75 FC Cummins 8.3
Tucson, AZ
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-19-2011
rwoody's Avatar
rwoody rwoody is offline
ANOTHER REDNECK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pleasanton
Posts: 5,610
Default

now my man you are a true bluebirder!!!!!

betcha u dont run it out again~~~~

good luck i bet the bus is a runner with that engine
__________________
RWoody
2003 LX Single Slide Hauling Wood 5
2 miles east from Texas Highway 37-97
Just a Hobby Shop now-Bird Repairs upon Appt and my Schedule -USAR Retired
Pleasanton Tx 78064
Do not use PM... please use
rwoody@fullnet.net
http://www.ebay.com/usr/woody19571

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
cummins 8.3, prime engine, priming engine

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
cummins 8.3 turbo - won't shut off 1derer Engine 20 07-23-2011 08:27 AM
Governor springs and fuel plates - 8.3 Cummins AC7880 BMC (Bluebird Motor Coach Unique Issues) 3 02-09-2010 07:44 PM
Diesel Fuel VS ATF for priming filters bwinter1946 Engine 10 02-01-2010 04:36 PM
Fuel Solenoid - Cummins 400 Lee Davis Engine 3 06-17-2009 10:01 AM
turbo pressure-max fuel flow gcyeaw Engine 12 05-27-2009 09:15 AM

Web Search:

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.