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Engine Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's engine.

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  #1  
Old 05-04-2018
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isp2952 isp2952 is offline
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Default What Do I Need To Know?

Here is what has happened. When I first got my coach 10 years ago, it never used a drop of oil or left any puddles. About two years ago I started using some oil. Maybe a quart over a 1000 miles. Didn't think it was too bad. Jim Brookshire was behind me coming to my house from Ludington, MI and told me he was impressed that he never saw any smoke come out of my exhaust. To the best of my knowledge I still have no smoke from when I start up or run. But I started seeing some oil on my garage floor. Little bit more as time went on and when on trips started seeing some oil on the toad and the back of the coach. Each trip it has gotten worse. This last trip a couple of weeks ago pushed me to have things checked out. I used maybe two qts. in a 1000 miles going, then almost a gallon on the way home, with everything pretty much of a mess in the engine, the back of the bus and my truck.

I took the coach to a local diesel mechanic. I explained to him what I had been experiencing. He has had the bus a couple of days and steam cleaned the engine. At this point he said he has not been able to find any leaks around the oil pressure sensor, or oil line to the compressor, or any other possibilities. He checked the drip from the airbox lines and said that according to the amount the measured in an hour of running on high idle it would leak about a gallon in a 1000 miles. He said they checked the crankcase pressure and it isn't too high and within range. He seems to think it may be a turbo seal or blower seal, but won't know until he gets in there and tear into it.

So based on what I have said, does this make any sense or sound reasonable? I am concerned that he may think I am a "cash cow" because he was telling me that I have a leak on the fan motor and that would require taking out the radiator and so on. I told him I was aware of that, but planned on taking care of that at a later time. He then went to an air valve, probably my dump valve at the rear cross member behind the tag that is leaking and talked about replacing that. I again told him I would take care of that and that I was interested in getting the oil leak in the engine fixed first. The other issues will be addressed, but at a later time.

He hasn't taken anything apart yet. Just searched and really hasn't found the source of my leak. He is going to look under the coach again today for any other possible things that could be leaking, now that everything has dried up pretty well from the steam cleaning. I told him to put together an estimate of what the cost could be and he said he would make it worse case scenario. Meaning that if it was the blower seal and hopefully it would be better if it was only the turbo seal. Let me say this too. I dropped it off Wednesday. I told him the bus was a power hog and that it needed to be plugged in. I showed him the cord in the battery compartment for the inverter/charger that plugs into the duplex outlet. I told him run an extension cord to that cord and plug it in to keep the batteries up. When I got there this morning he had a battery charger on the posts in the engine compartment and the coach was not plugged in. He said he couldn't remember where the cord was that I showed him I'm sure he didn't think it was that important, but I was really bummed out when seeing he didn't listen to me or recall where to plug it in at.

So what do you guys that understand this stuff think? If I go ahead with this is there anything else I should address while in there.

I just recall Kurt Barritt having a big oil leak and was told it was the turbo and they tore into it charged him $6K to fix the leak and didn't fix it He found that out when he drove it up to the Ludington Rally. Eric Pedersen found a bolt missing from the lifting eye and took care of it for the cost of a $2.00 bolt I by the way have already checked those myself and they were tight on mine.
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Jim and Michele Walters
'93 WLWB
Bluebird of Happiness
F397772
2002 Silverado Diesel 2500 HD 4x4
2003 Harley Ultra Classic
260-224-1278
Larwill, IN
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  #2  
Old 05-04-2018
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A friend of mine had an 8V92 that was leaking about one drop of oil every minute or two from just one of the slobber tubes at high idle. His problem ended up being a bad blower seal. If I remember correctly, a rebuilt blower cost him less than $700 and he had to buy a complete 8V92 gasket set that cost about $200. That didn't include labor which was pretty time consuming. They also replaced all of the seals/gaskets below the blower and aftercooler that they could get to.
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  #3  
Old 05-04-2018
Fujimo Fujimo is offline
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Jim I know everything is clean now I would take the coach on a short road test ,, stopping several times and look for oil . putting under load may show up a leak . just my two cents.
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  #4  
Old 05-05-2018
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Originally Posted by Dieselbird01 View Post
A friend of mine had an 8V92 that was leaking about one drop of oil every minute or two from just one of the slobber tubes at high idle. His problem ended up being a bad blower seal. If I remember correctly, a rebuilt blower cost him less than $700 and he had to buy a complete 8V92 gasket set that cost about $200. That didn't include labor which was pretty time consuming. They also replaced all of the seals/gaskets below the blower and aftercooler that they could get to.
Thanks John. I think?

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Originally Posted by Fujimo View Post
Jim I know everything is clean now I would take the coach on a short road test ,, stopping several times and look for oil . putting under load may show up a leak . just my two cents.
Thanks Paul, you may be right.


At this point I'm in a holding pattern. I took the bus in Wednesday May 2nd. The guy has not put a wrench to it yet. That may be good. He cleaned the engine and like I said earlier ran down the batteries by not following my instructions, which honestly are pretty simple. "Plug it in!!!!"
So far he has told me he ran it on high idle for almost an hour and got 5 oz of oil out of the slobber tubes and can find nothing on the engine itself that is an external leak, after cleaning it and running it. So he is telling me that there could be a seal leak of the turbo or blower. He also indicated it could be a problem with the rings, but he can't or won't say definitively which it could be. I was totally confused at first, because of my lack of knowledge on this stuff. I'm seeing all this oil all over the outside of the engine and I'm thinking the oil is coming from an "external" leak. Apparently this must be an "internal" leak and the oil is going into the airbox and out the slobber tubes and the crankcase vent tubes. The oil was then just blown all over the inside of the motor and of course the outside of the rear and the towed.

So I'm in a dilemma. Do I let this guy work on the coach, when he can't understand simple instructions on why and how to plug in the coach? Do I let someone who has had the coach for three days, just to clean the engine, and search for leaks. By the way, he does have a service truck and does "road or come to you service" which may be the reason not much has gotten done. This is a one man operation with his wife as bookkeeper, and there are no other vehicles in the shop but mine, at this time. I have seen older busses in the shop that had to have had 2 strokes in them over the years and from listening to him when he talks he sound like he understands 2 strokes. But then again he is talking to me, so that isn't much of an endorsement.

I'm thankful for the information given and I found a couple of posts, one being from John about a blower seal having been replaced on his coach by a previous owner and the hours being about 20 hrs of labor. He was commenting on another members similar issue, who was told the similar information that the time would be about 20 hrs. So, correct me if I am wrong but I'm looking at a possible $3500 -$4500 for this job including parts? I guess that is not counting what he has run up to this point, so I could be at the $5K level. Then what if that doesn't fix it and it is the rings?

I guess I need to have some faith in this guy. He is most likely playing it safe and telling me about "all" potential problems instead of telling me "this is the problem" and later finding another issue, then having to tell me about that. This is something I have never been faced with on any vehicle I have ever owned. I have only ever had routine maintenance repairs done, never anything like this in my lifetime, so this is out of my realm of experience, in more ways than one.
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Jim and Michele Walters
'93 WLWB
Bluebird of Happiness
F397772
2002 Silverado Diesel 2500 HD 4x4
2003 Harley Ultra Classic
260-224-1278
Larwill, IN
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  #5  
Old 05-05-2018
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Jim:

Before you go any further, why don't you use Randy's usual suggestion, and spray it all over the areas in question with baby powder, then run it up and see if you can discover where the leak/leaks are coming from.

To me it sounds like this man is being honest when he says "he doesn't k.now
where exactly it is leaking oil from, however, I don't think you should proceed with any repair until you can ascertain where your problem is coming from, as it could cost you plenty of unnecessary spent dollars, and still "not have your oil problems solved."

All the best with your oil problems, but the only thing you know for sure at this time that has gotten worse over time.
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  #6  
Old 05-05-2018
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Got a good Detroit store in my town, might want to consider bringing it up here. Your guy don't sound so good, maybe I'm too quick to judge, usually am.
I know the service mgr, do a bit of Allison work with them, steady diet of bus's go through the shop, mostly older techs.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/In...!4d-88.0727828
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Old 05-05-2018
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I would remove and disassemble slobber valves clean and reinstall they should be oil tight off idle I've read- sometimes junk get stuck in check valve causing oil leak by ... you can remove and clean yourself jim I did mine yearly...and added a catch tank to get any droll from getting on the pavement
mike https://store.reliableindustries.com...x-drain-4-psi/
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  #8  
Old 05-05-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hohnstein View Post
Got a good Detroit store in my town, might want to consider bringing it up here. Your guy don't sound so good, maybe I'm too quick to judge, usually am.
I know the service mgr, do a bit of Allison work with them, steady diet of bus's go through the shop, mostly older techs.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/In...!4d-88.0727828
Thanks Mike. I appreciate you thinking about me. I will talk with this guy, on Monday to see what his ideas are on how many hours it is going to take and so on. Having read other posts on this issue with the seals on the turbo and/or blower being about a 20 hr. repair, if he is in the ballpark I will consider him as an option. If he gets crazy and comes up with an inflated time I'm out of there and I will contact you for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irmagoo View Post
I would remove and disassemble slobber valves clean and reinstall they should be oil tight off idle I've read- sometimes junk get stuck in check valve causing oil leak by ... you can remove and clean yourself jim I did mine yearly...and added a catch tank to get any droll from getting on the pavement
mike https://store.reliableindustries.com...x-drain-4-psi/
Mike, I already have new check valves on order and the old ones will be replaced. Rick Davis gave me one of those "catch tanks" with a breather on it and a petcock to drain it, when he was cleaning out his barn when selling it. I will put it to use. But there still is a reason this beast is using so much oil now. When I first bought the coach I never added oil between changes and the engine was always clean. So I have to believe something has given way, which needs to be addressed. I can keep dumping oil into it, but am I going to totally destroy the thing by doing so. That is the big worry on my part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidder View Post
Jim:

Before you go any further, why don't you use Randy's usual suggestion, and spray it all over the areas in question with baby powder, then run it up and see if you can discover where the leak/leaks are coming from.

To me it sounds like this man is being honest when he says "he doesn't k.now
where exactly it is leaking oil from, however, I don't think you should proceed with any repair until you can ascertain where your problem is coming from, as it could cost you plenty of unnecessary spent dollars, and still "not have your oil problems solved."

All the best with your oil problems, but the only thing you know for sure at this time that has gotten worse over time.
Thanks Art. Not sure there is an external leak. I have looked things over and I believe the mechanic when he says there isn't one. It was impossible to tell when it was covered in oil, but he cleaned it very well, with steam and whatever else and you just see a sign of oil now on the engine, after he ran it for an hour on high idle. But then again maybe that isn't long enough either. Paul suggested I run it under load for a good piece and see what happens. I may dust the heck out of the block with powder and see if that discloses anything.


Thanks to all of you that have taken the time to let me know what you think and give some encouragement. Even though there isn't a lot anybody can physically do, just knowing that you guys are there with moral support is a big help. This is truly a great group of people.
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Jim and Michele Walters
'93 WLWB
Bluebird of Happiness
F397772
2002 Silverado Diesel 2500 HD 4x4
2003 Harley Ultra Classic
260-224-1278
Larwill, IN
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  #9  
Old 05-06-2018
Jon 1968 Jon 1968 is offline
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Jim,

I know you have it at the shop now but did you consider Clarke Power in Fort Wayne. They are of course a DD shop but more importantly a few on the WOG have used them and had nothing but positive things to say. They will work with you on price too which I can attest too having my Turbo replaced and my CAC removed and fixed. I have had other things done there and the diagnosis has been accurate
Just a thought if your guy is outside the realm of what you are thinking on Monday.

Jon
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  #10  
Old 05-06-2018
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isp2952 isp2952 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jon 1968 View Post
Jim,

I know you have it at the shop now but did you consider Clarke Power in Fort Wayne. They are of course a DD shop but more importantly a few on the WOG have used them and had nothing but positive things to say. They will work with you on price too which I can attest too having my Turbo replaced and my CAC removed and fixed. I have had other things done there and the diagnosis has been accurate
Just a thought if your guy is outside the realm of what you are thinking on Monday.

Jon
Yes Jon, I have. I have used them a couple of times years ago. I have bought parts through them too. I even posted back then that they are a top notch repair facility, and others have used them since with good results, such as you. I suppose my excuse is that this guy is only about 6 miles from my house and he was recommended too. I felt this way I could "pop in" now and then and keep track of what was going on. Thinking I could control costs better. That may have been "Penny wise, pound foolish" on my part. When Mike H. mentioned his connection, up by him, I was planning on checking with Clark first, if I don't get that comfortable feeling on Monday. He has not put a wrench too it, so all I have to do is get in and drive off, after paying him for his efforts to this point.
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Jim and Michele Walters
'93 WLWB
Bluebird of Happiness
F397772
2002 Silverado Diesel 2500 HD 4x4
2003 Harley Ultra Classic
260-224-1278
Larwill, IN
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