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M380 (Unique Issues) If you have a unique issue with your M380 model coach and it can't be answered in one of the other forums here, then this is where you can list it.....list your M380 Parts here too.

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  #1  
Old 10-04-2010
Dennis Dennis is offline
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Default Converting the Rear Slide - by passing the computer

2004 M380 Rear Slide Conversion

The following is a narrative of how I converted the rear slide of my 2004 M380 bypassing the existing converter and computer – to a direct connection with the slide motor and slide seal.

Only two wire cuts were made one to the slide motor and one to the seal actuator. This will make it easy to reconnect should anyone in the future want to use the computer and converter again.

The parts list was simple. 3 toggle switches and 4 spools of 2 red and 2 black 10 gauge wire purchased from Radio Shack. Splicers and connectors to connect the cut wires. Two cut off switches purchased from an auto supply shop (read below). And some fabrication as explained below.
  • I used two strands of 10-gauge wire, a black for the ground/negative and a red for the power/positive. In the curbside bay where the start batteries are located, I connected the ground wire to the start battery ground. The positive was connected to a terminal on the power distribution relay located on the floor of the power distribution cabinet in the same bay. An inline 15 amp glass fuse was used on this wire as well.
  • Next I ran both wires up through a hole drilled in the floor under the bed just about under where the slide motor is located. These wires were encased in plastic tubing and tied to framing along the way to keep them from getting snagged.
  • The positive was run to a 6 leg toggle switch to operate the slide motor; up for out; down for in; center for neutral.
  • The negative was run to two door switches. I used the door switches that turn on the interior car light when you open the car door and shut it off when you close the door; these are sold at auto supply shops, but you can use any cut off switch you can find. Both switches were mounted on hand made (using 1/8 inch steel) “L” shaped brackets and were mounted (using a drill and screws) on opposite ends of the steel slide frame that surrounds the slide motor and supports the bed. These are limit switches cutting the electrical circuit when the slide reaches its outer limit when opening the slide and the other when the slide reaches the inner limit when it is retracted.
  • The ground wire from the door switches was connected to the ground wire on the slide motor and the positive wire from the toggle switch was connected to the positive wire on the slide motor. Note: I left several inches of wire coming out of the slide motor before cutting it so that it could be easily reconnected if someone in the future so desired.
  • Now for the slide seal: Locate the slide actuator in the driver’s side bay – it is behind a black cover. The rear actuator controls the air into the rear slide seal. There are two tiny wires at the bottom of this actuator. Clip both these wires about 4 inches below the actuator so that you can still use the plug that connects the wires to the actuator. Splice in your red and black wires then run these wires through the openings where existing wires are going from bay to bay. Then run them up through the coach floor where existing wires are run. By removing the two draws under the wardrobe opposite the bathroom sink you will be able to pulls the wires through into the coach without need to drill. Cover these wires with plastic tubing and tie them up to keep them from getting snagged.
  • The wires from the actuator were then connected to a 4 leg toggle switch – down for deflate. The default or center position is automatically the inflate position. So down for deflate, center for inflate. Power for this switch was run (piggy backed) from the 6 leg toggle switch.
  • To prevent accidental switch actuation I added a third switch using a red covered safety toggle switch – you have to lift the red plastic cover in order to turn the toggle switch on to the power position. When the plastic cover is pushed down it automatically cuts the power from both toggle switches.
  • I mounted all three toggle switches on the wall behind the large cabinet right next to the bed – the one closest to the wall of the wardrobe. Just cut a hole in the back of this wall and pull the wires through. Because there is very little clearance between the back of the cabinet and the slide when the slide is in, I fabricated and mounted a switch box inside the cabinet. Each toggle switch is mounted on this box and labeled; seal switch; slide switch; power switch.
  • To activate the slide, lift up the red safety cover over the on power toggle switch. Push the seal toggle switch down to the deflate position and wait about 10 seconds for safety – the seal takes about 6 seconds to deflate and you can hear it. Then switch the slide motor toggle switch to the up position for out or the down position for in. When finished close the cover on the red safety toggle switch to cut electric power.
Note: I eliminated the slide lock since it is unnecessary. The existing jackscrew that moves the slide in and out will prevent the slide from moving except under the power from the motor.

Note: Johnney Anderson told me he figured out a way to do the above using the existing wires and mounting new switches in the same cabinet where the current real slide control buttons are located. This saves stringing new wires. Since stringing the new wires was actually simple I elected to do it as above which also makes it easy to reconnect the computer system if so desired.

CAUTION: The above conversion eliminates the fail safe built into the computer that prevents the slide from being activated unless the seal is deflated. Once you convert as above you must remember to deflate the seal before moving the slide or you will likely ruin the seal. I hope to find a way to resolve this issue i.e. a way that the slide toggle has no power unless the seal toggle is in the deflate position.

Note: I am not good at drawing. If any of you want to add a schematic drawing of the above to this thread, please do.
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2004 M380
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Old 10-04-2010
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Nice post.
Thanks for the info,it sounds simple!
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Old 10-04-2010
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dennis could you tee a pneumatic over electric switch inline with the seal-then series the hot wire on the "open slide wire to the normally closed side of switch" so you would have to dump seal air before the dpdt switch would allow power to motor? just a thought mike
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Last edited by irmagoo; 10-04-2010 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 10-04-2010
Dennis Dennis is offline
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Thanks Mike, I'll give this some thought and welcome all suggestions. I consider this project a work in progress rather than a completed one.
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Old 10-04-2010
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Hi Dennis,

Great job on your work in simplifying your slide control, and thanks for being open to suggestions. Something that I'm concerned with is early switch failure, the consequences of which could be severe. When the motor is abruptly turned off inductive spikes result in high voltages which may cause your control switches to arc and possibly weld. I'd like to suggest a modification to help protect against this.

Here's a page that explains a typical H-Bridge circuitry for bi-directional DC motor control:

http://www.dprg.org/tutorials/1998-04a/

One of the advantages of this circuit is that the control is separated from the motor power delivery. Another is that flyback diodes are easily inserted in to the power circuitry to protect your switching devices from inductive spiking.

Here's an example of a "Twin Type Automotive Relay" that implements the H-Bridge for you. You still need to insert your limit switches into the circuit and protect the relays with flyback diodes:

(see the circuit on page 2)
http://www.relayspec.com/Company_lis...ech_eng_cj.pdf

This particular relay may not be able to provide the power requirements you need. Here's some more twin type automotive relays which may better suit the needs of your motor (search for "twin type"):

http://www.fujitsu.com/emea/services...s/relays/auto/

The suggested mod is to separate your control from your power delivery and protect your switch contact surfaces from inductive spiking.
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Old 10-04-2010
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If you use normal open relay and power it when the slide seal is released, run your power to the motor through it. It would stop you from moving slide with out the seal deflated. Maybe I am missing something. Just a thought.
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Old 10-05-2010
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Try a vacuum delay relay, power deflate also bumps the delay adjustable with a screw that vary the time delay. When delay is finished it will energize motor if there is still a connection at the deflate switch, and at the direction switch, you want a (delay on) 1-60 second delay

Also they used capacitors for 100 years on 12 volts to prevent arcing points on automobiles ignition coils.
Just don't use electrolytic they explode if hooked up backwards... don't ask how I know this....... remember you have a reversing motor.
When the circuit opens the paralell cap takes the juice that would normally make a spark at the switch. Sorry cant help with sizing tho.

It would be nice to have all those switches in a metal box with bushings for the wires.. Im a nut that way tho
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Old 10-05-2010
Dennis Dennis is offline
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Thanks to all of you for these suggestions - keep them coming.

Dave, I read the material you linked regarding the H-Bridge and EMF transient spiking. I have to admit this is out of my field of experience, but the articles seem to me to be directing these concerns to the use of a micro control (MCU) which is not present in my conversion. All I have is simple toggle switches and circuit breaking on-off switches. Should I still be concerned? I will add too that when I move the slide I have "marks" so I know where the full out and full in are so that in the event the limit switches fail I will move the toggel to center and stop the movement. The full out does not seem to be a problem because there is no way the slide can fall out and you could hear the motor stressing if it tried to go beyond that limit. The only concern in bringing it in is that if the limit switch failed to stop it and the awning arms were not unhooked you would likely bend the awning arms.
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Old 10-05-2010
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Dennis,

Putting "snubbers" in place to handle the voltage spike created in electric motor applications is standard practice to protect switch contacts, relay contacts, FET or NPN transistors, or other microelectronics. It's your call. If it were me, I'd use a diode snubber, but a resistor/capacitor snubber as Christian described will also work. I guarantee as you open and close your switches, a spark will bridge the gap between you're switch contacts. The energy from the inductive spike has to go somewhere. If your main control switch fails, moving the toggle to the center will do nothing, and the motor will continue to run. If you don't do it, then you may want to make sure that you use suitable switches that can withstand the voltage spike. Other's who implement your circuit should also take some precautions.

I threw the Half Bridge (H-Bridge) circuitry out there only as a neat way of implementing bi-directional motor control. It's especially cool cause it can be done with a single twin type relay (2 SPDT's). The other suggestion on implementing slide air seal control with a time delay relay, as Christian pointed out, is also a great idea. My HWH slide control uses something like this.

Last edited by davidmbrady; 10-05-2010 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 10-05-2010
Dennis Dennis is offline
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Thanks again. Okay, one more comment on this mostly for me to better understand. In the factory set up the slide circuit at the full out and full in positions is broken by magnetic sensors. Since there are no contact points on these sensors would my changing from the limit switches I now have to magnetic limiters eliminate the need for diode snubbers?

Also, where could I buy a time delay relay?
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