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Engine Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's engine.

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  #31  
Old 10-14-2013
ryoung ryoung is offline
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I am having what seems to be a similar issue with my bird. We went camping this weekend, everything ran perfect getting there. When it was time to go, the bird started perfectly. As it was sitting there it started to falter. I put it on a higher idle, which it seemed to like. When the air had built and it was time to go, I lowered the idle and it ran so rough it would not move. I let off the gas and the engine died. After some attempts to start with no luck, I gave it a very small shot of ether. Fired right up and died, so I knew I had a fuel issue. I had a engine fuel filter with me so I tried replacing that. I did not have fuel so I put trans fluid in it so it would not be sucking straight air. Nothing. I remembered what I had read here, and got in our toad to see if I could find a mechanic at the TA truck stop around the corner for ideas. Guy there said probably air in the lines, take all filters off and fill with diesel, pump the hand pump 200 - 250 times ( apparently new detroits state in the manual 300 pumps to prime according to him ). He said if that does not work tap it with ether just to get the motor to fire. Did that, and it fired up. Ran rough but worked. We took off imediately for home. It started to run better on the highway but I did not shut it off or take it off of high idle until it was in my laneway. Dumped it while running, put it in its parking spot and shut it off. Tried to refire - no problem. Fired right up. I guess the test will be to see if it will fire after a few days. In my opinion the lift pump seems to be weak. As mine is a 81 SB, I cannot find an external fuel pump anywhere. Would it be wise to install one as noted previously? Do you think that is my issue? Any ideas? Man it gave us quite a scare as we were in the United States (we live in Ontario Canada) 4 hours from home and I have to be at work tomorrow morning. Glad we got it home.
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Richard and Ruth Young
1981 FC35
"A Lil' R & R"
Rodney, Ontario
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  #32  
Old 10-15-2013
ryoung ryoung is offline
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Any ideas on above issue? Help would be appreciated.

Thanks
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Richard and Ruth Young
1981 FC35
"A Lil' R & R"
Rodney, Ontario
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  #33  
Old 10-15-2013
MRPutz MRPutz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoung View Post
I am having what seems to be a similar issue with my bird. We went camping this weekend, everything ran perfect getting there. When it was time to go, the bird started perfectly. As it was sitting there it started to falter. I put it on a higher idle, which it seemed to like. When the air had built and it was time to go, I lowered the idle and it ran so rough it would not move. I let off the gas and the engine died. After some attempts to start with no luck, I gave it a very small shot of ether. Fired right up and died, so I knew I had a fuel issue. I had a engine fuel filter with me so I tried replacing that. I did not have fuel so I put trans fluid in it so it would not be sucking straight air. Nothing. I remembered what I had read here, and got in our toad to see if I could find a mechanic at the TA truck stop around the corner for ideas. Guy there said probably air in the lines, take all filters off and fill with diesel, pump the hand pump 200 - 250 times ( apparently new detroits state in the manual 300 pumps to prime according to him ). He said if that does not work tap it with ether just to get the motor to fire. Did that, and it fired up. Ran rough but worked. We took off imediately for home. It started to run better on the highway but I did not shut it off or take it off of high idle until it was in my laneway. Dumped it while running, put it in its parking spot and shut it off. Tried to refire - no problem. Fired right up. I guess the test will be to see if it will fire after a few days. In my opinion the lift pump seems to be weak. As mine is a 81 SB, I cannot find an external fuel pump anywhere. Would it be wise to install one as noted previously? Do you think that is my issue? Any ideas? Man it gave us quite a scare as we were in the United States (we live in Ontario Canada) 4 hours from home and I have to be at work tomorrow morning. Glad we got it home.
Richard, My instinct here is to start basic troubleshooting. I've seen buses run for 35 years without a lift pump without issues. Do I think it's better to have one, probably. I do plan on adding one to mine but it is with mixed feelings. It does add complications, more things to go wrong, but has the benefit of performance and prolonged engine pump life. In your situation I would do the following;

1) With the bus safely raised I'd get a creeper and follow the fuel line from the tank to the engine looking for a pump. It should be closer to the fuel tank if installed properly. The pump could be failing or have an air leak.

2) I'd check all the connections and especially the filters to make sure I didn't have an issue there with an air leak.

3) I'd suspect the manual fuel pump itself. These do develop air leaks over time. IF you are leaning towards the lift pump (as I am) I'd remove the manual pump, plumb a bypass, and wire the new lift pump so that it can prime the system if ever needed manually. I'd also use the Holley rotary vane style pump as they are better, can be rebuilt, and if ever fail won't leave you stranded.

Just my 2 cents....
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  #34  
Old 10-15-2013
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Randy Dupree Randy Dupree is online now
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You may have just had a dirty fuel filter,and when you changed it you got air in the system.
Let it sit a few days and start it up,if it starts fine you are probably OK.

If you still have the hand primer pump on it,that may be the problem,like Mike said.
If you still have the square glass filter,they are a problem too.

Adding an electric lift pump is something you should do..
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  #35  
Old 10-15-2013
MRPutz MRPutz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Dupree View Post
If you still have the hand primer pump on it,that may be the problem,like Mike said.
If you still have the square glass filter,they are a problem too.

Adding an electric lift pump is something you should do..
Learned all this from you guys on the WOG.
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78FC35SB & 83FC35SB Wanderlodge - "Putz'n Around"
'90 GL1500 Goldwing | '67 VW Rail | '82 CJ5 Jeep
eMail=Mike.Putz@cox.net | Web=http://mikeputz.com/
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  #36  
Old 10-15-2013
Friday1 Friday1 is offline
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If you still have the hand pump in your filter system, make sure you push it in toward the filter base and rotate the knob to lock it in that position.

Rick in Ohio
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  #37  
Old 10-15-2013
Bearmtnmartin Bearmtnmartin is offline
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I have the same problem. After sitting for a couple days it will randomly shut down after getting on the road. I am pretty sure I have the leaky throttle shaft problem which slowly bleeds the fuel pressure off. I can quickly restart it by turning it over while operating the hand pump.

I should mention I do not have a transfer pump.
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Martin Sparkes
Agassiz, B.C.
1981 Bluebird Wanderlodge FC
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3208NA (for now....)
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  #38  
Old 10-31-2013
ryoung ryoung is offline
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So I left the cat for a week and tried to start it, it would not fire. I cannot find any place where there appears to be a fuel / vacumm leak in the line, but I would imagine they would be very hard to find. I have aquired a fuel pump and was planning on installing it by the Racor filter that is near the propane tank in the bay just in front of the entry door. A desiel mechanic says that the Racor will be in the return line, but I think that this one is on the vacumm line from the tank to the 3208. Can someone confirm this?

Thanks for all of the help and suggestions.
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Rodney, Ontario
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  #39  
Old 10-31-2013
MRPutz MRPutz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoung View Post
So I left the cat for a week and tried to start it, it would not fire. I cannot find any place where there appears to be a fuel / vacumm leak in the line, but I would imagine they would be very hard to find. I have aquired a fuel pump and was planning on installing it by the Racor filter that is near the propane tank in the bay just in front of the entry door. A desiel mechanic says that the Racor will be in the return line, but I think that this one is on the vacumm line from the tank to the 3208. Can someone confirm this?

Thanks for all of the help and suggestions.
1) The Racor is on the primary supply line going to the engine
2) Find a better mechanic.
3) The closer to the fuel tank you put the pump the better.

BUT, where you plan is a very popular place and probably where I'll add mine someday.
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Michael & Tami Putz
78FC35SB & 83FC35SB Wanderlodge - "Putz'n Around"
'90 GL1500 Goldwing | '67 VW Rail | '82 CJ5 Jeep
eMail=Mike.Putz@cox.net | Web=http://mikeputz.com/
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  #40  
Old 11-01-2013
rjslota rjslota is offline
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When I got the rig someone had already put the pump on. I had an issue with the wires, I called BB and those guys down there, great by the way, said "you ain't got no pump" but explained the issue of the injector pump being the supply pump and a lift pump was a comon addition that worked well. Whoever installed the lift pump was an idiot. They tapped the bottom of the tank at the drain and used that as the supply line. Well there must have been something in the tank because every once in a while it would die, I figured that the object got on top of the supply line and cut the fuel off. So I found the right supply line on top of the tank hooked up to that and wala no more problems. You need to put the pump at the tank this eliminates all posibility of air leaks since its pushing the fuel. It was also great if and when I did have a shut down, I would hit the ignition you could hear the pump come on, crack a few injectord till you get fuel then the old girl would start right up and level out. Good luck Ray
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