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General Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach that are not covered in other Mechanic's Corner categories (ex. refrigerators, water heaters, and compressors).

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  #1  
Old 07-18-2009
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sanibel sanibel is offline
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Default Freeze 12 refrigerant

Anyone replaced the R12 refrigerant with this stuff? I am getting ready to attack my dash air (again) and am considering using this rather than switching to R134
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  #2  
Old 07-18-2009
Hisham Amaral Hisham Amaral is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanibel View Post
Anyone replaced the R12 refrigerant with this stuff? I am getting ready to attack my dash air (again) and am considering using this rather than switching to R134
John

The change will work for a while but you have to keep checking the hoses and the seals on the compressor. R134A tend to degrade these components. I change to R134A on my airplane and found no effects so far (3 years so far and no problems) .
Hisham and Sue Amaral
97 Wanderlodge43'
W. Bloomfield MI
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  #3  
Old 07-18-2009
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http://www.foxtoolsupply.com/HC-12a.htm

THIS WORKS GOOD SO FAR
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  #4  
Old 07-18-2009
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Just be aware that in accordance with federal law this type of refrigerant (freeze 12 etc) may NOT be used in an existing system that already has some R12 etc in it. The system must first be evacuated and then recharged with freeze 12 and identified as such. If you do add freeze 12 to an existing system then it now must be evacuated into a separate container and identified as such (ie mixed refrigerant). It is doubtful that any mechanic or other person working on these systems will even want to touch it because of the stiff federal fines. If you have the system charged with freeze 12 worked on by someone later on and fail to identify this to the mechanic etc then you are again breaking a federal law. In my opinion it is not worth doing it. use only the recommended refrigerants either R12, R134A or R22
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  #5  
Old 07-18-2009
Stephen Stephen is offline
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I used Red Tek
http://www.redtek.com/home.html
works great no problems and half the price of R134a
and its a dropin replacement
And made in USA
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  #6  
Old 07-18-2009
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Default Alternative Refrigerants

For what it's worth here's a link to an EPA page that lists some alternative refrigerants and whether they are legal for automobile air conditioning use. There's a chart at the bottom of the page that lists some Acceptable and Unacceptable refrigerants.

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrig.../macssubs.html

Here's what the epa says about using flammable hydrocarbon based refrigerants in air-conditioning systems:

http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html

4) May hydrocarbon refrigerants be used to replace CFC-12, commonly referred to as "Freon® ," in cars?
No. It is illegal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants like HC-12a® and DURACOOL 12a® as substitutes for CFC-12 in automobile or truck air conditioning under any circumstances.

5) Why is it legal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants as CFC-12 substitutes in industrial process refrigeration, but not elsewhere?

EPA has not yet received data that adequately address the safety issues of hydrocarbon refrigerants in applications other than industrial process refrigeration. Flammability risks depend on the type of refrigeration or air-conditioning system. Industrial process refrigeration, for instance, does not include air conditioning, which pipes refrigerated air directly into occupied areas. Industrial process refrigeration generally refers to complex customized appliances used in the chemical, pharmaceutical, petrochemical and manufacturing industries. Direct risk to human health is reduced in industrial process refrigeration; for example, access to areas near the system is typically restricted. In addition, other regulations exist to protect the safety of industrial workers.

Note: You can check a refrigerants MSDS sheets to see if its a hydrocarbon based refrigerant.
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  #7  
Old 07-18-2009
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sanibel sanibel is offline
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The flammability issue is more compelling for me than the legal concerns. I likely have some leaks and I am a little scared of flammable gasses around electricity and hot engines. I'll go with R134. Anyone know a way to tell what's in there now?
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Black Tongue Farm
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  #8  
Old 07-18-2009
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Default Freeze 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanibel View Post
The flammability issue is more compelling for me than the legal concerns. I likely have some leaks and I am a little scared of flammable gasses around electricity and hot engines. I'll go with R134. Anyone know a way to tell what's in there now?
Hi John,

The EPA chart I mentioned above lists Freeze 12 as Acceptable. It says it's 80% HFC 134a and 20% HCFC 142b.
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1991 40' WLWB-WTB
Body Number F095567
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1984 ½ PT-36 .From 2000 - 2008
1973 FC-31 .....From 1991 - 2001
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  #9  
Old 07-18-2009
Stephen Stephen is offline
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redtek is approved for use in Canada
Does that mean I cant bring my toad into the US
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  #10  
Old 07-18-2009
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heck i used to put a little propane in the ac when i had a leak on old trucks....

ever heard of a propane powered truck?????

whats the differance between that and ac system>???

propane works great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

r-134 is the replacement......certified for all
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2003 LX Single Slide Hauling Wood 5
2 miles east from Texas Highway 37-97
Just a Hobby Shop now-Bird Repairs upon Appt and my Schedule -USAR Retired
Pleasanton Tx 78064
Do not use PM... please use
rwoody@fullnet.net
http://www.ebay.com/usr/woody19571

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