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  #21  
Old 08-30-2017
Tim T.'s Avatar
Tim T. Tim T. is offline
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The way I did this cruise control/Jake modification, the coach brake lights do NOT come on when the JAKE is activated. That was O.K. with me. If you want the brake lights come on upon Jake activation, it may require the addition of an additional relay. I didn't go that far. Everything else concerning how the cruise control/Jake the works is the same as the Bluebird factory intended.

If you want an easily reversible way to test to see if you like the Cruise control/Jake modification described in the posts above, try this.

1. Find the AMP connector shown in the 0021812 schematic in red and temporarily remove the #15 pin (wire 1425B) from the P6 connector and test drive the coach. If done correctly the connector pin will go back in without problem. Do a YouTube search for how to remove the connector pin from the AMP connector.

During this test the coach brake lights and the Jake activation indicator light on the left drivers console will NOT light up when the Jake is activated.

If you don't like the operation/interaction of the the cruise/Jake put the pin back in the connector and it's back to like it was before the modification.

The more permanent Mod.
2. Put the AMP connector back together again and then disconnect (cut) the #1425 RD wire, slot #2, from the back of the P13A Stop Light Relay connector block. Do NOT disconnect the #1316B OR wire going to the same connector.

With this wire disconnected, Jake brake activation will not disable the cruise control. The coach will slow down until you are at or below the cruise control set speed, the Jake will deactivate, and the cruise control will again add throttle to try and maintain your set speed.

With this wire disconnected Jake brake activation will NOT turn on the coach brake lights.
With this wire disconnected Jake brake activation WILL turn on the Engine Brake Light indicator on the drivers left console.
Stepping on the brake will still override the cruise control and activate the brake lights just like before this mod.

See the attached schematic. Don't leave any bare wires for shorts!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Brake_Switch-2.pdf (121.2 KB, 63 views)
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  #22  
Old 08-30-2017
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Thank you Tim,i will do this today!
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  #23  
Old 08-30-2017
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"As you accelerate down a hill the cruise control will reduce the throttle to the point that the Jake Brake will activate"

I don't have that much hill driving experience so this may be a stupid question. With this configuration, the jake is enabled and the cruise is enabled and as you accelerate down a hill, the DDEC is suppose to manage both Jake and CC to keep you at your target speed - without canceling the CC.

Given a default Bluebird configuration where applying the foot brakes DOES NOT engage the jake, what happens if you need the jake prior to the DDEC engaging it automatically? Would you have to disable the cruise control, and that would force the jake on?

Sorry for the stupid question.
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  #24  
Old 08-30-2017
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If you need the Jake immediately you could either:

Tap the brake pedal, at which time the cruise control will disengage and the Jake will activate immediately based on the 0% throttle setting.

Or you can turn off the cruise control switch by hand, and the Jake will apply immediately based on a 0% throttle setting.

It would then work exactly the same as now without the cruise control on.
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  #25  
Old 08-30-2017
mahansm mahansm is offline
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In the Bluebird stock configuration as on my bird, when running the Jake set to come on when the throttle closes and also running the cruise control, the activation of the Jake brake sends power to the stop light relay, which passes the signal along to the cruise control relay, which then signals the cruise control to disengage.
Looking at the schematic it appears to be possible to let the brake light function as normal while isolating the cruise control disconnect by inserting a diode into the wire between the two relays.
When the brake is applied it connects one side of the cruise control relay to ground. This deactivates the cruise control. There is a jumper connecting this relay terminal to a terminal on the brake light relay which is also pulled low, activating the brake lamps.
When the Jake activates it hits the relays in the opposite direction, first activating brake lamps and then killing the cruise control.

A properly oriented diode in this jumper wire will block the deactivation of the cruise control while still allowing normal function of the brake lamps.

*WARNING* Installing the diode backwards will block the automatic deactivation of the cruise control when the service brake is applied.

Looking at the schematic from a prior post, it appears that the wire is 1316B, colored orange. The diode should be set to block current from P3D to P13A.
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  #26  
Old 08-30-2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim T. View Post
If you need the Jake immediately you could either:

Tap the brake pedal, at which time the cruise control will disengage and the Jake will activate immediately based on the 0% throttle setting.

Or you can turn off the cruise control switch by hand, and the Jake will apply immediately based on a 0% throttle setting.

It would then work exactly the same as now without the cruise control on.
Yep, got it. Totally forgot that in this situation you'll probably be on the brakes which would deactivate the CC and therefore would engage the jake - in this particular situation. Thanks!
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Clint & Tammy Summers
Atlanta GA / Lenior City TN

2000 LXI SS "Piper"
1977 FC 31 RB "BUSTA BUS"
(Possibly for sale Fall 2020)
1995 WB 42 "The Magic Carpet" sold

Semper Fi
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  #27  
Old 08-31-2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim T. View Post

I don't want to confuse the issue anymore than I already have but my coach now has the incremental Jake Brake enabled in the DDEC.

The incremental Jake Brake only works with the cruise control on.

As my coach accelerates going down a hill,

at 2 mph over the cruise control set speed the Jake activates on the low setting,

at 3 mph over the cruise control set speed the Jake activates on the medium setting,

at 4 mph over the cruise control set speed the Jake activates on the high setting.

At the bottom of the hill, as the coach slows to the cruise control set speed, the Jake deactivates and the cruise control will again apply throttle to hold the set speed.

The speed at which the Jake Brake activates above the cruise control set speed is programmable in the DDEC..
This step must also be programmed by Allison with the jake reprogram. I am reading this correctly?
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  #28  
Old 08-31-2017
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The actual operation of the Jake brake (except for the transmission downshift) is a DDEC function and will have to be programmed through the DDEC. The incremental Jake application will have to enabled and programmed in the DDEC.

Having said all that, on our coach, the incremental Jake was enabled from the Bluebird factory. I didn't even know that because I went to have the DDEC reprogrammed before I did the final wiring modification. The incremental speed over the cruise control set points were different. I believe mine were set to 5 over, 8 over and 11 over from the Bluebird factory and I had them reprogram the incremental Jake to 2 over, 3 over, and 4 over as stated above.

There are some slight differences between DDEC-4 and DDEC-3, but I'm not sure what they are. It is my understanding that both will work just fine. I have no idea how it will work with DDEC-1 and DDEC-2.

Best of luck to all.
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  #29  
Old 08-31-2017
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This is very interesting,i had no idea this was possible.
Thanks for the info.
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  #30  
Old 01-21-2020
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Regarding mods mentioned in this thread:

Has anyone else had the DDEC programmed for the incremental Jake function?

Anyone else made the mod that allows the Jake to engage without cancelling the cruise?
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Clint & Tammy Summers
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2000 LXI SS "Piper"
1977 FC 31 RB "BUSTA BUS"
(Possibly for sale Fall 2020)
1995 WB 42 "The Magic Carpet" sold

Semper Fi
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