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PT & WB (Twin Axle Pusher Unique Issues) If you have a unique issue with your PT or WB model coach and it can't be answered in one of the other forums here, then this is where you can list it....list your PT Parts here too.

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  #21  
Old 02-08-2018
Ed Wimberley's Avatar
Ed Wimberley Ed Wimberley is offline
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Megger I Don't think so .All the megger I've ever used were for testing resistance of wire or motor . Never heard of using one to test battery.
There is a Megger BRAND NAME used to test batteries It's not a megger as used to test wires mothers etc.
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  #22  
Old 02-08-2018
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sfedeli sfedeli is offline
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So... just so you understand the starting sequence of the old PT's, here's a brief flow-chart explanation. When you hit the key switch, you are sending +12V (or less) to a solenoid inside the frame behind the battery tray. This solenoid requires a solid ground through the A/T switch at the front dash, or it will not energize. Then, the voltage goes to another identical solenoid also inside the frame behind the battery tray that requires a solid ground through the 6 PSI oil pressure switch on the little manifold that you see next to the stater on the frame rail. (The manifold should have a braided oil line going to the engine block) If the voltage makes it past those two hurdles, it then must have the strength to close the relay on top of the starter. It sounds to me like there is a significant voltage drop across the A/T switch, pressure switch or even the large solenoids (that can become saturated with oil and moisture).
To bypass all of this, you can directly jumper voltage to the starter relay on top of the starter and it should crank until you remove the cable. If that is not happening, then my money is on the batteries not having the "cojones" to push 1000-1100 amps to the starter. I have seen many cases where a battery displays 12.7 volts at rest and falls to almost "zero" when you apply any kind of load. Try hooking an older-style analog voltage meter to the battery bank and see what the voltage drops to when you crank the engine. Trying to do this with a digital meter will often result and sporadic readings, but the analog ones will remain somewhat steady at a point while under load.
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  #23  
Old 02-08-2018
Captain Fred Captain Fred is offline
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Connections, connections, connections. It sounds like you are trying to fix a problem by throwing parts at it. How many amps is the starter drawing ? Have you checked and cleaned ALL of the connections ? Load tested the batteries ? Could indeed be the starter but that is a costly guess.
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  #24  
Old 02-08-2018
trystero trystero is offline
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Hey Randy and all including oldmansax!

It's running.

Probably two issues at same time and not sure if all is well for good but for now, yes.

I referred to Tom's suggestion that if turning over and not quick start perhaps fuel shut-off. I just tapped on it and when I turned key again it started right up just like it did before. I'll lubricate it as suggested and hopefully that's that.

I'm still a bit perplexed at why the starter wouldn't (won't) stay engaged and cuts out after only a couple of seconds. That part is still a mystery that a new starter might solve if that still seems to be the only explanation.

And Randy, I've always called a load tester a megger (I think that's just a company that made battery testers and the name is generic like Coke) but batteries all tested excellent and strong individually under load and jumping past connections produced same results.

Thank all you guys for the suggestions and encouragement. I really feel lost at moments like this when failure is not an option and the bus I'm going to be buried in looks like it will have to be towed to the graveyard.
:-)
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  #25  
Old 02-09-2018
oldmansax oldmansax is offline
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I love it when a plan comes together! LOL!

TOM
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  #26  
Old 02-09-2018
mose mose is offline
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Glad it's running, BUT....

I think you should keep looking for the cause of your second problem, where it will only crank a few rotations and then just quit. As others have mentioned, this really sounds like the oil pressure cut-out circuit or a bad connection in this circuit. Your problem may still be there, but if it starts in the first few rotations, then you don't notice the cut-off problem. I'd disconnect the fuel so it won't start and diagnose the cut-off. Otherwise it will likely happen again.

John posted a link to the circuit diagram. In your case, it sounds like the circuit is cutting off the starter as soon as the oil pressure reaches 6psi. I THINK how that circuit works is that it uses heavy duty solenoids that have separate 'pull' and 'start' windings for the solenoid. The 'pull' winding is in series with the oil pressure switch and is required to engage the solenoid. Once engaged, the 'hold' winding will keep it engaged until the key is released, regardless of the oil pressure switch reaching pressure and opening. So I think you may have a solenoid with a defective 'hold' winding, or other connection issue. Since the coils for the two solenoids are in series, you may just have a bad 'start' wire between the solenoids.

If this seems useful, I can draw up some more detail.
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  #27  
Old 02-12-2018
badandy badandy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trystero View Post
Hey Randy and all including oldmansax!

It's running.

Probably two issues at same time and not sure if all is well for good but for now, yes.

I referred to Tom's suggestion that if turning over and not quick start perhaps fuel shut-off. I just tapped on it and when I turned key again it started right up just like it did before. I'll lubricate it as suggested and hopefully that's that.

I'm still a bit perplexed at why the starter wouldn't (won't) stay engaged and cuts out after only a couple of seconds. That part is still a mystery that a new starter might solve if that still seems to be the only explanation.

And Randy, I've always called a load tester a megger (I think that's just a company that made battery testers and the name is generic like Coke) but batteries all tested excellent and strong individually under load and jumping past connections produced same results.

Thank all you guys for the suggestions and encouragement. I really feel lost at moments like this when failure is not an option and the bus I'm going to be buried in looks like it will have to be towed to the graveyard.
:-)

You might want to check on those pressure switches as Shane laid out. I know for a fact this can cut out the starter if you have healthy quick oil pressure in a few seconds. Mine is wired up so the rear-start will override that cutout, however.
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  #28  
Old 02-12-2018
Friday1 Friday1 is offline
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Always do the easy troubleshooting first. Look at the results of your tests. Changing parts on a gut feeling as a last resort. Gardner's test lights in circuits is cool. I'm a lazy mechanic and troubleshoot to death before I get any tools out. Nobody wants to change a starter and have the same problem afterwards. The power is stopping somewhere for a reason. That reason is easy to find with testing.

Rick in Ohio
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