Wanderlodge Owners Group  
BuyByeBlueBird.com
Donate

Go Back   Wanderlodge Owners Group > Mechanic's Corner > Caterpillar 3208 Solutions

Caterpillar 3208 Solutions This sub-forum is hosted by Mike Hohnstein who has been at this kind of thing for 50+ years now, guess I'm addicted. The saga has been all about progressively larger shop space since then. Honestly, never wanted to get into the CAT 3208's that were originally considered to be a throwaway engine but that's all that works in a FC in my world. Same thing with my Ford toter, that came with a NA, too much effort to hang in a 6, so been at it with the CAT V-8 for 20 years now. In reality you can get excellent life out of a CAT 3208 if it's built correctly. Post your questions about the CAT 3208 engines here and Mike will try to help you out.

Site Search:
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-26-2016
Rich Johnson's Avatar
Rich Johnson Rich Johnson is offline
Chegment
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 165
Default Mitigation of a Runaway

This is a spin off of the thread titled "mystery Spring"

Firstly: A runaway is an uncontrolled operation of a diesel either by governor malfunction or an improper source of fuel getting into the cylinders.

I proposed three methods to mitigate a runaway 1) closing the rack by shutting off the fuel solenoid or manually pressing on the rack linkage, 2) Air restriction by an intake damper modification, 3) CO2 injection into the intake manifold modification.

Solution 1 will not mitigate an improper source of fuel event. Solution 2 has issues that have not been fully explored, picture is of in progress damper mod. Solution 3 is expensive and not yet applied
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Diesel 1.JPG
Views:	186
Size:	154.0 KB
ID:	43702  
__________________
Rich Johnson
1981 FC-33 RB
chegment001@yahoo.com
Connecticut 06089
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-26-2016
treebob treebob is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: hawley
Posts: 48
Default

Rich, I can appreciate your determination.

Now, regarding your 3 step solutions:

1. The Cat fuel injection pump and shut off solenoid work flawlessly when the system is not contaminated with water, dirt, rust, improperly repaired, or just plain worn out. I have worked for Cat for 25 years, Mike has great prices on ready to go pumps.

2. Air restrictions systems work great, they are installed on trucks that are used in the oil field industry, and are reliable and used when lives are at stake. I have seen engines continue to run with only a pin hole to supply air, you may be underestimating the degree of accuracy required to completely shut the air supply off. The manufactured air shut off's are designed to seal 100%, no gaps, nothing. I know you brought up the breather issue on another post, so I will assume you will address the breather also if you go this route, as it is 100% necessary.

3. I have no experience with solution 3, however I'm sure it would work with a properly sized system, and it looks like your not overly interested at this point anyway.

I believe I've read a thread where you had some type of fuel contamination entry into your pump, I believe your best option is to get that pump removed, and either disassembled to inspect it, or just plain replace it. Even if you get your air restriction to work flawlessly and reliably, what are you going to do if your driving somewhere and you have to activate your air restriction to shut it down? Coast to a stop, then what? I also believe you underestimate how quickly an engine can overspeed, bend push tubes, cause pistons to hit the valves, which either causes a valve to drop, or a piston skirt to break due to being cocked sideways by the valve, and suddenly you have multiple holes in your engine block. This can happen when you are not even in the driver's seat, and you will have no hope of reaching it in time.

I don't want to discourage you, I simply want to see your engine live, and I have seen actual failures that can cost you well over $15,000. I've got one in the shop now with an estimate of over $16,000 to get it running again, without any pump work yet, hope to have it out the door by friday. Please, get that pump rebuilt!

3208's have a bad rap from many who ran them in trucks 20+ years ago. The engine I'm rebuilding now, is 30 years old, and still has factory rod bearings dated 1985. They look great! This engine, however is in an industrial application, steady speed, and never over speeded. I've seen countless 3208's that have been ruined by overspeed, usually in a truck with a manual transmission. They don't do well with overspeed. I hope you continue to keep us updated, and wish you well.
__________________
bob wallace
hawley, mn
1985 fc35rb
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-26-2016
Randy Dupree's Avatar
Randy Dupree Randy Dupree is offline
Forum owner
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Port St Joe,Fl
Posts: 37,782
Default

Good post Bob,thanks
__________________
DO NOT SEND PM
email me at randy@randydupree.com only.

Randy Dupree
2000 LXI 43
Bainbridge,Ga.
Port St Joe Fl.
www.buybyebluebird.com

randy@randydupree.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-27-2016
wtwtw wtwtw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Clearwater
Posts: 514
Default

There are a lot of intelligent people on this site that have been dealing with these and other machines for years. Do your self a big favor and listen to them. They are here to help not hinder you
__________________
Bill Wilson
Clearwater, Florida
1991 sp36
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-27-2016
Rich Johnson's Avatar
Rich Johnson Rich Johnson is offline
Chegment
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 165
Default For Bill Wilson - Good advice

Good advice. Exactly why I posted the thread in the first place. Trying to get, and share important information received from those with experience and knowledge. Me, I'm just a guy with some hunches, and a few guesswork ideas.

I took apart the rear section of my pump/governor to the point of removing the shield over the fly weights. Removed the little mystery spring then cleaned and reassembled the rear again I didn't find the sticky deposit in the governor, that I found in the Facet pump screen. Just some brown stain. Perhaps the screen and subsequent filter and water separator did it's job. When I had the governor apart I noticed that the linkage to the racks worked smoothly without sticking. When I first had a semi-runaway event, I had a stick placed in the starter solenoid hole ready to press on the rack shut off linkage. Pressing on the linkage seemed to mitigate the situation.

The comment regarding how I would not be able to quickly actuate the damper solution is quite valid. Good to know that solution 2 has actually been incorporation in industry. Again pointing back to solution 3 being the most viable solution.

Seconds to Bupree comment - The Treebob reply is well worth reading - more than once.
__________________
Rich Johnson
1981 FC-33 RB
chegment001@yahoo.com
Connecticut 06089
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-27-2016
wtwtw wtwtw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Clearwater
Posts: 514
Default

If you are really wanting to do #3 would a halon fire extinguisher for a race car engine compartment or like we use for the fridge compartment work in the air intake.
__________________
Bill Wilson
Clearwater, Florida
1991 sp36
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-27-2016
Rich Johnson's Avatar
Rich Johnson Rich Johnson is offline
Chegment
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 165
Default Halon fire extinguisher

Coming from the nuclear industry, I've a little experience with both CO2 and Halon. CO2 is used in areas such as switch gear that should be evacuated before actuation, and Halon in areas that need the continuous presence of human occupation. CO2 deluge systems kill before you even know you're dead. Isn't Halon on the expensive side? Been looking through my old rusty Thermodynamics books and am developing a theory or two about the subject at hand. Beginning to lean in favor of the CO2, or Halon solution. Good tip on racing systems. Will check.
__________________
Rich Johnson
1981 FC-33 RB
chegment001@yahoo.com
Connecticut 06089
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-27-2016
wtwtw wtwtw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Clearwater
Posts: 514
Default

I picked up a small halon extinguisher from craig's list for $25.00. Just have not mounted it in the engine compartment yet
__________________
Bill Wilson
Clearwater, Florida
1991 sp36
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-28-2016
Rich Johnson's Avatar
Rich Johnson Rich Johnson is offline
Chegment
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 165
Default Halotron Extinguisher

Found that Amazon sells a Kiddie halotron extinguishers for less that 100 dollars. 2.5 pounds capacity. Halotron is supposed to be the new Halon. Good deal on the used halon extinguisher.
__________________
Rich Johnson
1981 FC-33 RB
chegment001@yahoo.com
Connecticut 06089
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-28-2016
Rick's Avatar
Rick Rick is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bellefonte
Posts: 13,226
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Johnson View Post
Found that Amazon sells a Kiddie halotron extinguishers for less that 100 dollars. 2.5 pounds capacity. Halotron is supposed to be the new Halon. Good deal on the used halon extinguisher.

What I would like to know if I were trying to stop this type runaway with Halon is how many cubic inches is in that bottle. Your going to have to displace CO2 more than one or two time.
__________________
Rick Shawver
1SG Ret
2000 LX
Vise Grips
Bellefonte, AR
F127656
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Runaway gas turbine (jet) engine Randy Dupree Under The Awning 6 07-24-2016 06:13 AM
Runaway remnants Mike Hohnstein Engine 39 04-04-2015 12:26 PM
Runaway truck stop gcyeaw Under The Awning 35 05-05-2012 10:29 AM

Web Search:

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.