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Electrical Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's electrical system.

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  #1  
Old 01-28-2020
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atckip atckip is offline
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Default Battery question

Time to replace my (6) 4D AGM house batteries. A local battery reseller is offering these EnerSys DataSafe 12HX680F-FR $125 each with warrenty. After talking with them, they assure me that these are acceptable RV replacements. Looking for information on these vs 4D's is like comparing apples and oranges. Any thoughts


https://www.enersys.com.cn/uploadfil...0412100256.pdf
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  #2  
Old 01-28-2020
Jim Brookshire Jim Brookshire is offline
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Kip,

The data for these batteries shows them being discharged to 11.1 volts or less. They do not list any expected number of discharge cycles. It appears to be emergency power batteries that might only be expected to survive a small limited number of cycles. Also your inverter will shutdown long before the batteries discharge down to 11 volts. Just a quick look. I would pass.
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  #3  
Old 01-28-2020
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Also, why are they offering a $630 battery for only $125? RED FLAGS AND SIRENS
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  #4  
Old 01-28-2020
Big Al Big Al is offline
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Kip
Are the operating temperatures acceptable 68-77 Fahrenheit?
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  #5  
Old 01-28-2020
mahansm mahansm is offline
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Comments:
Battery backup service is different than discharge/recharge cycles to run a coach. Expected duty is float charging for 99% of its life with occasional shallow discharge periods followed by immediate recharge. There will, of course, be the occasional deep discharge but that should be on a less than annual basis. They are also meant to be kept in air conditioned office space; most battery space on a coach is not climate controlled.



I'd look at Energizer 4D deep cycles, available from Batteries+ for about (quoted a year or so ago) $150 per, delivered. I live about 5 miles from the store. This is the same battery carried by Sam's club. I'm using 3 of the 31s as starting batteries and so far so good.
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  #6  
Old 01-29-2020
Jim Brookshire Jim Brookshire is offline
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This is from Batteries + web site.

The $160 4D at battery + is a starting battery. The deep cycle 4D’s that show up on their web site are listed for $480 and $560.
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  #7  
Old 01-30-2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atckip View Post
Time to replace my (6) 4D AGM house batteries. A local battery reseller is offering these EnerSys DataSafe 12HX680F-FR $125 each with warrenty. After talking with them, they assure me that these are acceptable RV replacements. Looking for information on these vs 4D's is like comparing apples and oranges. Any thoughts


https://www.enersys.com.cn/uploadfil...0412100256.pdf
Kip, who ever told you those batteries were good for motorhomes does not know what they are talking about. Get away from those people!

All you need to do to compare deep cycle batteries is to compare amp/hour (ah) ratings at a 20hr rate, this is the standard so you can compare apples to apples. I'll bet their battery doesn't even have a 20hr amp hour rating? I couldn't find it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
Kip
Are the operating temperatures acceptable 68-77 Fahrenheit?
Absolutely not! Not even in my home in the summer in Arizona!

Our battery compartments will see temps from below freezing to over 110 degrees depending on your travels.
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  #8  
Old 01-30-2020
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Glad you guys confirmed what I was already guessing. I saw the operating temp issue right away and then...even though I really wasn't understanding it, the max charging rate seemed awfully low. And my next step was to Magnum to find a set-up.
This battery reseller close to me turns over lots of surplus batteries. I could have got 8D AGMs awhile ago. I was just trying to look at alternatives.

The first battery I was looking at last summer were these

EnerSys PowerSafe SBS-190F Sealed Lead Battery 12V 190Ah Front Term

They were suppose to be rugged duty. I could get them for 100 bucks a piece with some warranty. For batteries that was cheap. I was going to take a shot at an alternative set-up. The owner...who wasn't there the other day..Was working with me to see if they would work in a deep cycle situation. Most of his batteries come from cell phone tower projects.
But I couldn't figure out the charge rate...and that project got shelved....

Are you saying that none of these type batteries are usable in an RV.



https://www.osibatteries.com/p-2276-...ront-term.aspx
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  #9  
Old 01-30-2020
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atckip View Post
Glad you guys confirmed what I was already guessing. I saw the operating temp issue right away and then...even though I really wasn't understanding it, the max charging rate seemed awfully low. And my next step was to Magnum to find a set-up.
This battery reseller close to me turns over lots of surplus batteries. I could have got 8D AGMs awhile ago. I was just trying to look at alternatives.

The first battery I was looking at last summer were these

EnerSys PowerSafe SBS-190F Sealed Lead Battery 12V 190Ah Front Term

They were suppose to be rugged duty. I could get them for 100 bucks a piece with some warranty. For batteries that was cheap. I was going to take a shot at an alternative set-up. The owner...who wasn't there the other day..Was working with me to see if they would work in a deep cycle situation. Most of his batteries come from cell phone tower projects.
But I couldn't figure out the charge rate...and that project got shelved....

Are you saying that none of these type batteries are usable in an RV.



https://www.osibatteries.com/p-2276-...ront-term.aspx
Some of these larger batteries do have much better specs for a deep cycle BUT the form factor of putting the terminals so close together is not good. Also for the prices I saw you'd be much better to just go Battleborn and be done with it.

If you compare that 12v 190ah battery to a Battleborn you'll find;

1) EnerSys PowerSafe SBS-190F Sealed Lead Battery 12V 190Ah is still a lead acid battery so can only use 50% DOD so you're getting 95Ah from them for $910 ($792.61 on sale). So even if we use the on sale price you're paying $1.43 per watt for 1,140 usable watt hours

2) A Battleborn 100Ah Lithium is $949 and you can use 90% DOD so the usable cost of them are $1.13 per watt for 1080 usable watt hours

3) So to get 400 usable amp hours you'd have to buy 4 of each brand batteries. $3,796 for Battleborn and $3,170.44 for the "on sale" lead acid. Not much of a difference in initial investment and not even a comparison when you factor in battery life.

4) With the lithium you get 3,000-5,000 life cycles out of them, with the lead acid 1,000-2,000 cycles so in the long run the Lithium's would be 1/3 the cost.

5) Plus Battleborn comes with a 10 year warranty!

So from what I see there is no comparison, go Lithium!


NOTE: If you look back through all my posts you'll NEVER see me recommend a lithium battery but gotta tell ya they are starting to get there and the drop in Battleborn is a pretty impressive setup!
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  #10  
Old 01-30-2020
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Randy Dupree Randy Dupree is offline
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L16s for the win.
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