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M380 (Unique Issues) If you have a unique issue with your M380 model coach and it can't be answered in one of the other forums here, then this is where you can list it.....list your M380 Parts here too.

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  #21  
Old 07-07-2016
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MRPutz MRPutz is offline
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Originally Posted by NoGas View Post
Bloggers Gone with the Wynns just posted a revealing video of their solar wiring test. It graphically demonstrates that if panels will endure ANY kind of shadows from trees, telephone poles, antennas (or boat rigging in their case - they recently ditched their RV in favor of a boat ), then wiring solar panels in parallel is the way to go! And that's true even with the fancy bypass diodes new panels have now. Their results were the same, whether with their older GoPro panels or some new Kyocera's.

http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/Sail...rallel-Shading

PS - when 110+ daytime and night time 90 temps hit Phoenix, progress on my solar project ground to a halt . Will be heading north soon for cooler temps, to get them installed...
I call foul!

I've done this test and have different results, I run in series now. The other thing I found was that the results were not instantaneous, It took up to 3-4 minutes for the MPPT controller to respond to the shading. I believe that to be a function of the controller eliminating temporary shading.

I can cover 1/2 a panel or an entire panel and within a few minutes my power is back up and only a small portion it lost, not the entire array.

I think they should sync their websites cuz in the video they say they are going parallel but in the text they say they went series. BTW, if you want to see the shading test come on by, I showed this at Q and surprised some non believers, the bypass diodes work, at least on a 72 cell panel.

From their panel info site;
http://www.gonewiththewynns.com/prod...tric-solar-kit

"This is our exact 960 watt system with six 160 watt panels. We have them wired together in series putting out over 100 volts DC. This allows us to use smaller cable for the long run from the solar panels to the solar controller because the amperage is still very low.
We have a potential for and have seen 54 amps of power per hour when in good sun. It’s a lot of power!"
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Solar = https://www.solarpenny.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=257

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  #22  
Old 07-07-2016
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Mike - the link you provided was to the Wynn's system as it was installed in their RV, before they got rid of it. Before it drove off they ripped out all their tech items including the solar system. The video test was them trying to figure out how to install their old solar system with the inherent shading problems of a sailboat. In it they obviously did not allow time for their controller to adjust to the shading that was being tested. So you say after a few minutes your MPPT controller compensates? I'd be interested in hearing how given that adjustment time, your series wired panels react to the same single/multiple cell shading tests the Wynns tried??

Eric - That's a nice setup and lots of power but a bit too much for a coach . I'm doing 1.4KW only because I don't want to mess with tilting the panels. Figure that even with a 30% loss due to them being flat mounted, I should still get 1KW and that'll meet my needs nicely. Obviously, grid-tie systems have completely different monitoring & control needs. However, Magnum does have a web based monitoring setup that plugs in as an add-on box. Although cool, it's hard to justify that extra cost to gain techie points
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  #23  
Old 07-07-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGas View Post
Mike - the link you provided was to the Wynn's system as it was installed in their RV, before they got rid of it. Before it drove off they ripped out all their tech items including the solar system. The video test was them trying to figure out how to install their old solar system with the inherent shading problems of a sailboat. In it they obviously did not allow time for their controller to adjust to the shading that was being tested. So you say after a few minutes your MPPT controller compensates?

I'd be interested in hearing how given that adjustment time, your series wired panels react to the same single/multiple cell shading tests the Wynns tried??
That's exactly what I did. I wanted about 600-700 watts so went with 900 so I wouldn't have to tilt the panels. Not having to climb up on the coach every time you park and again when you leave PLUS making sure you park in the right direction is priceless! So basically for an extra $200 I'll never have to worry about that.

There was an article somewhere I read that had a good rule of thumb. If you don't want to go through all the hassles of researching and finding out all your loads and draws to try and calculate how much solar you need, simply add 1 watt per battery amp hour. Since I've added 2 additional 6v deep cycles that would put me at 660 watts. If you add 30% for non tilt you get 858 watts, so I rounded up to 900 and used 3x 300 watt panels. That sure makes all the math and research simple.

As far as the shading, I've shaded 1/4 panel, 1/2 panel, and a full panel with good results. I'm running a Midnight controller so not sure how the programming differs as far as that 2 minute response time goes. My guess is that if a bird or some other temporary shade condition exists they don't want to respond to that?

At any rate, the bypass diodes work and I still get full output of all the other panels. I think they moved/tested too fast and didn't allow the MPPT controller to readjust to the new environment.
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'90 GL1500 Goldwing | '67 VW Rail | '82 CJ5 Jeep
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Solar = https://www.solarpenny.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=257

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Last edited by MRPutz; 07-07-2016 at 08:03 PM.
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  #24  
Old 07-10-2016
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  #25  
Old 07-10-2016
Jim Brookshire Jim Brookshire is offline
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A large drive motor and you can travel anywhere that has 250 ft bridge clearance using not only "no gas" but also "no diesel"!
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  #26  
Old 07-18-2016
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Question Running roof AC off batteries & solar only - Soft Start

Anyone have experience installing or using either the Dometic SmartStart Soft Starter or the Micro-Air Easy Start 364?

With a 3,000 watt pure sine wave inverter, roughly 1,000 watts of usable solar (over 8 amps coming in at 120V) and a healthy battery bank to act as the intermediary - theoretically during the mid-day heat, solar should be able to replace most if not all of the current used by one AC compressor. It appears the only stumbling block is the compressor locked rotor startup demand spike (see THIS video for a test and problems discovered). The above mentioned "black boxes" seem to solve that issue. If so, I'd love to hear about it.

PS - realize this post is about running AC without either a gen or shore power, but that will soon apply to this all-electric coach also .
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Last edited by NoGas; 07-18-2016 at 02:00 AM. Reason: Added links
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  #27  
Old 07-18-2016
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Anyone have experience installing or using either the Dometic SmartStart Soft Starter or the Micro-Air Easy Start 364?

Yes. It works!! I installed the Easy Start 364 on my forward A/C unit just a few days ago. With the main engine running and no genny, I run the forward A/C through a Magnum 2812 inverter without a problem. With the Easy Start installed the startup load is ~170A (as shown on the Magnum remote display); running load ~140A. Without the Easy Start, the startup load briefly exceeded 300A, momentarily faulting the inverter but not enough to take it offline. It would then drop to a running load of ~140A.
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Last edited by Kev; 07-18-2016 at 10:04 PM. Reason: Revised startup load when using Easy Start to account for other loads that were running in addition to the air conditioner.
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  #28  
Old 07-18-2016
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Default Consider the benefits of EasyStart

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGas View Post
Anyone have experience installing or using either the Dometic SmartStart Soft Starter or the Micro-Air Easy Start 364?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev View Post
Yes. It works!!
Thank you, NoGas and Kev, for mentioning our product. The moderator granted us permission to respond to your post to offer everyone some helpful information. We just want people to know about the benefits of our EasyStart product. Recently, we have been working directly with the Wynn's from the YouTube channel, GoneWithTheWynns, mentioned in this thread, to film a EasyStart installation video into their A/C systems aboard their new boat. They recently sold their RV, bought a catamaran, and have started a whole new adventure. We expect that they will post this video on their YouTube channel within the coming weeks.

Regarding NoGas's specific question, EasyStart is superior to the Dometic SmartStart for all the reasons cited on the second page of the spec sheet available at this link. It also costs much less and is available for direct sale via our webstore. Please check out the video that we produced showing an EasyStart installation into an RV rooftop air conditioner, posted here on YouTube. More details are available on the EasyStart product page on our website.

If you are trying to run your A/C with a small generator, with an inverter (solar or wind powered), or with a weak utility source, you need to reduce the start-up current surge to be within the limits of the power source. The only way you can do that effectively is with a soft start. Not all soft starts are created equal. Beyond this, hard start kits do not reduce the start-up current surge, as demonstrated empirically in the video mentioned above. We at Micro-Air have spent the past 4 years developing and refining our EasyStart. We are very proud of it as it has helped thousands of customers. It is presently being incorporated by multiple OEM A/C manufacturers in the marine, truck, and RV markets.

We will be happy to help with any questions. We have a small collection of wiring diagrams for popular RV rooftop A/C systems with EasyStart drawn in. If you want additional assistance to help wire EasyStart into your particular A/C system, please take a photo of its wiring diagram and send it to us in an e-mail shown in this list. We will respond directly to you with a marked up diagram.

If anyone feels this post is offensive or outside the guidelines, please feel free to report it to the moderator. All we're trying to do is offer information here that will help everyone. In the end, you can make up your own mind on what you may want to do. Purchasing a larger inverter or generator can solve the issue of starting your A/C system, but that costs a lot more. We therefore invite everyone to consider the benefits of EasyStart. Thank you.
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  #29  
Old 07-18-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev View Post
Yes. It works!! I installed the Easy Start 364 on my forward A/C unit just a few days ago. With the main engine running and no genny, I run the forward A/C through a Magnum 2812 inverter without a problem. With the Easy Start installed the startup load is ~190A (as shown on the Magnum remote display); running load ~140A. Without the Easy Start, the startup load briefly exceeded 300A, momentarily faulting the inverter but not enough to take it offline. It would then drop to a running load of ~140A.
Keep us informed of your progress and longevity. I've talked with several repair shops and none of them endorsed me trying to run an AC from an inverter. In fact, they joked around about doing it as they wanted more business!
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78FC35SB & 83FC35SB Wanderlodge - "Putz'n Around"
'90 GL1500 Goldwing | '67 VW Rail | '82 CJ5 Jeep
eMail=Mike.Putz@cox.net | Web=http://mikeputz.com/
Solar = https://www.solarpenny.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=257

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  #30  
Old 07-20-2016
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Thanks Kev and Micro-Air. The MA video mentioned above was very informative. During a recent trip in extremely HOT conditions with generator running, both Dometic rooftop compressors began intermittently shutting down. Installed a Dometic Hot Start kit on front AC and it then worked perfectly in even hotter conditions. My plan is to move that kit to the rear AC and install a 364 on the front one. Would like to run front 364 equipped AC while driving (alternator + solar) or while parked (solar only) through the coach batteries & Magnum inverter. Realize with one rooftop AC there will be a slight negative battery bank amp draw when using solar only, but that's ok for a few hours. Inverter longevity concerns without a Soft Start black box are totally valid and that fault light is a huge red flag! However with a 364, the AC compressor startup surge and steady state running draw should both be well below the Magnum 2812's rated capability, as long as other loads are managed. With the goal of keeping Mike's repair friends lonely, I also plan to place one of my "fridge" temp senders down in the electrical bay close to the inverter. Managing heat there is at least as important as matching loads to the units capacity. Either way, it'll be fun seeing how it all comes together!
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