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LX and LXI (Unique Issues) If you have a unique issue with your LX or LXI model coach and it can't be answered in one of the other forums here, then this is where you can list it, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THOSE ISSUES INVOLVED WITH ANY LAWSUIT.....list your LX and LXI Parts here too.

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  #21  
Old 08-21-2018
al perna al perna is offline
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Originally Posted by rtpn60 View Post
When you join the banks to charge "ALL" the batteries unless the house/chassis batteries are the same then one bank will charge fully and the other will never reach full charge.
Lets try this

so house is 50%
chassis is 90%

so now we now start genny/Coach charge chassis reaches 100% in 1 hr , what happens to the chassis while the chargers are working to bring house to 100%
? Does the charging continue at full rate even though coach is already charged ? Or does something tell the charger to now only charge the house cause the coach is already charged ?
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  #22  
Old 08-21-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al perna View Post
Lets try this

so house is 50%
chassis is 90%

so now we now start genny/Coach charge chassis reaches 100% in 1 hr , what happens to the chassis while the chargers are working to bring house to 100%
? Does the charging continue at full rate even though coach is already charged ? Or does something tell the charger to now only charge the house cause the coach is already charged ?
OK.. let's put it this way. When you join the house/coach batteries together (regardless of charge) the smart charger now sees a new huge battery and will try to charge it. Since one bank is charged and the other is 50% huge currents will flow from one bank to the other to equalize the differential between the charges. Once that is complete the voltage drops, charger sees that and charges more until the entire bank reaches the charger's set voltage.

What that typically means is the two banks have different charge levels (voltages) and one bank will reach it's full charge before the other will because their needs are different. Typically the start batteries charge first (have lower internal resistance) and the house batteries will never get back to full charge while connected to the start batteries.
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  #23  
Old 08-21-2018
al perna al perna is offline
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Originally Posted by rtpn60 View Post
OK.. let's put it this way. When you join the house/coach batteries together (regardless of charge) the smart charger now sees a new huge battery and will try to charge it. Since one bank is charged and the other is 50% huge currents will flow from one bank to the other to equalize the differential between the charges. Once that is complete the voltage drops, charger sees that and charges more until the entire bank reaches the charger's set voltage.

What that typically means is the two banks have different charge levels (voltages) and one bank will reach it's full charge before the other will because their needs are different. Typically the start batteries charge first (have lower internal resistance) and the house batteries will never get back to full charge while connected to the start batteries.
Thank you Michael , I'm good with that and will sleep better tonight

Now don't forget we still need to deal with solar one day
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  #24  
Old 08-21-2018
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I have wondered about this myself,and my thinking was to not use the battery combiner switch but to just put a seperate 120v charger on the engine batteries.


Putz,something you may or may not know,when the engine is running the alternator automatically charges both banks of batteries.
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  #25  
Old 08-21-2018
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I have wondered about this myself,and my thinking was to not use the battery combiner switch but to just put a seperate 120v charger on the engine batteries.


Putz,something you may or may not know,when the engine is running the alternator automatically charges both banks of batteries.
So that means the ignition switch is pulling in the aux solenoid then. Having both banks together is not a bad thing, it's just not the best solution. On my "KISS" charge setup I've posted I too pull them all together while the engine is running. It's a cheap, easy, "free" charge solution while the engine is running. It's a better solution to get all the batteries up to some charge state vs not being charged at all.

I can say though when I reach my destination I find the start batteries are fully charged while the house bank is around 80%. I was surprised the difference and the need to top them off before bed time.

Now, here's the kicker. Since I have all that solar I could isolate the two banks and just let the sun charge the house while the alternator charges the start. BUT, if you drive after sunset then you need to go back again and combine them all. So, it's all a compromise....
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  #26  
Old 08-21-2018
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Add to Putz’s comments - with a smart charger, the best way to determine when charging should transition from Absorbtion to Float is NOT by using Voltage or Time. Once Bulk charging has driven pack voltage up to a specified value (typically 14.6v) a smart charger will move to the next Absorbtion phase and it will gradually reduce the amount of amps going into the battery bank while holding that manufacturer specified voltage. Each manufacturer specifies the charging amps in this phase which must be reached to then transition the charger into the next phase - Float. The success of this process is highly dependent upon each of the individual batteries in the pack accepting a charge exactly like its “neighbor”. Therefore, mixing batteries from different manufacturers, different chemistry’s or different ages is NOT recommended. A faulty individual battery will really screw things up!

Given that the above factors ARE the same for both your coach and chassis banks (and that no single battery is “bad”), combining two banks with different SOC’s when charging is not a problem. Analogy - Think of two differently sized lakes whose surfaces when full OR empty are at the same elevation, one is 25% full and the other 75% full. You simultaneously open a pipe (combine them) that connects the two lakes and start filling them from a 3rd water source that is above both. Initially, water will rush from the 75% lake to the 25% lake. Then once their surfaces are at the same elevation, the 3rd water source will fill both until each has reached its own full capacity. That’s what happens when you combine two battery banks with ALL of those factors the same. This is why when my big coach bank of L16 6v’s was installed, I also changed out my two chassis -32 12v’s. Although the individual batteries in each pack are different voltages, the PACK voltages are the same as are the other factors mentioned above. Therefore, I can combine them even though one has a 400 Ah capacity and the other is 1,260 Ah.

Bottom line - if ANY of those factors on your chassis and coach batteries are different, I would not combine the two banks when charging.

On the M380, the coach and chassis banks will automatically combine when the engine is running but remain separate when not. When stopped with shore power connected they do not automatically combine. However, you can use the Combiner switch to force them to do so. Again, this is not recommended unless ALL of the “factors” above are the same. Like Mike mentions, with my big solar/battery banks I keep the two completely separate. And I have purposely NOT changed my engine alternator to 14.6v as some have because solar takes care of everything (I rarely travel at night).
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  #27  
Old 08-21-2018
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the 380 is wired the same as the LXI,the LX and the WBs,as far as the alternator charging both banks.
i think the alternator energizes the relay that combines the batteries.
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  #28  
Old 08-22-2018
al perna al perna is offline
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We also did not include the mix of battery types . I think there is only a .02 v difference but where do you set your charger flooded cell or AGM ? I have decided to go with flooded due to the risk of damage if they do not charge correctly . Cheaper to replace flooded over AGM was the thinking at the time .

The only reason I brought this up was due to the 3 times I have changed batteries over the years there was always 1 or 2 that were completely boiled over . I remember one time Randy and I were changing out my old house batteries and one by one we are lifting 120 lbs or so , and then we get to a batterie that weighed I think 3 lbs . So I guess like Van said if you have one bad battery you now have potential issues with charging .
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  #29  
Old 08-22-2018
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One thing that causes a lot of confusion is the relationship between voltage and current(amps). Lets look at a single battery connected to a single charger. Lets say the battery is somewhat discharged the voltage and measures 12.2. You turn the charger on. The charger starts ramping the current up while monitoring the voltage. As the charge current increases the voltage also increases. When the voltage reaches the charger design level (around 14 volts depending on the battery type, etc) the charger holds the current steady. As the battery charges the voltage rises, the charger detects this and lowers the charge current to bring the voltage back to 14. This process continues over time until the charge current is lowered to the float level. At the float level the desired voltage is lower so the current is adjusted to obtain that setting.

The actual charge rate is determined by the current entering the battery, the voltage level is a result of that current. So if you have two batteries tied together in parallel (like two banks), the voltage will measure the same because they are tied together, however the current entering each one may be different.

So to determine the charge rate of each battery (bank) you need to measure the current, not the voltage.

Also be aware if you connect the battery banks without the charger turned on, the bank with the higher charge will drain into the bank with the lower charge until they equalize.
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Last edited by gcyeaw; 08-22-2018 at 11:42 AM.
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  #30  
Old 08-22-2018
al perna al perna is offline
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well I think all is good now . In the float stage , house 13.76 or so chassis 12.72 or so . All batteries are new , thank s for all the input .
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