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General Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach that are not covered in other Mechanic's Corner categories (ex. refrigerators, water heaters, and compressors).

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  #11  
Old 03-17-2008
jwasnewski jwasnewski is offline
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Jim, I have a follow up for you to consider.
I filled my coach with water today as winter is past, I hope. We are going to a State Park for Easter. After I primed the water pump I got a small drip from my purge line. My purge line has water in it from the Self Sanitizer unit back to the ball valve. From the ball valve back to the air purge valve is air. The line with the water in it is about 12" long on my coach, is a black nylon line which is the same used in many locations on the coach. It connects with one of those gray release deals and has an "o" ring inside. If I throw the purge switch and open the ball valve the leak stops and air is blown into the water system. When I get back I am going to plumb that section with flared copper tub, or just plug it off since I did not use it this winter and did not have problems. This set up could be a source of a major flood if one end of that tube somehow released.
Your coach must have a valve of some kind, (check, ball, sporlan) something to keep the water from getting into the air system from where it attaches to the water system.
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  #12  
Old 03-20-2008
Jim Barone Jim Barone is offline
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Default Water purge valve

Leroy et all..I still haven't figured out the water purge valve but here is what happened yesterday..I started the coach, after sitting about 5 months, and went about 30 miles to get tires and batteries..As I was airing up the tires I noticed large quantities of water in the compressed air. When I activated the black and grey water shut off valves water gushed out from the switches. The step would not retract and when I activated the step master switch water gushed from that switch as well.. The air horn sounded really sick, kind of gurgled. After getting the tires installed and the batteries replaced the tag axel pressure responded normally and the step began to operate normally.. I checked the water purge valve under the bed and it was not leaking water..in fact, after we got home, while there was still air pressure, I could hear the air pressure in the purge system. LeRoy I think you mentioned earlier about draining the air tanks and I answered that I had not done this. Do these latest problems sound like the tanks need to be drained? If so, I can now get under the coach..can you give me a clue on where to look for these drain valves and what they look like and how many drains are there? Does the air system need to be pressured to drain the tanks? Thanks again for all your help. Jim Barone
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  #13  
Old 03-20-2008
jwasnewski jwasnewski is offline
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This is what I think has happened based on your description and based on what I found in my coach.

The purge switch is leaking water. The purge switch air line is tied into the water system somewhere under your bed. My purge air line ties in at the top of the water sanitizer, a white
cylinder. If there is not a ball valve or some other means to stop it in the air line somewhere water will get back to the purge switch when the air is down. If the purge switch is leaking internally there would be nothing to stop the water from backwashing through the complete aux air system. It is difficult to believe that the purge switch itself is the only line of defense. On the other side of the equation, air can be introduced into the water system when the air is up if there is no ball valve installed and the purge switch is leaking internally. 120psi air will move 45-50psi water.

My coach has a ball valve in the air line after the purge switch about 12" from the sanitizer. I changed that nylon connecting line out yesterday to copper because it had a leak at the connection.
With apparent water throughout the aux air system, dump valves, air horn, step, aux air chuck, etc. I would think for one the tank needs to be drained. However, If it were my coach I probably would approach it like this.

First. Solve the purge air problem because that seems to be the source. That may require installation of a small ball valve in the air line after the purge switch.

Second. I think the lowest part of that air system is at the air step. I would disconnect the incoming air at that step(be quite careful with that step, it can hurt you bad)and pressurize the air system. That should blow out most of the water.

Third. I would drain all the tanks just because it has not been done. Based on my coach there are 4 and none are especially easy to get to. There are 3 around the air dryer and one in the forward section on the coach up high in front of the passenger area. It is difficult to see. I installed lanyards on mine so I just pull a cable to get it done. Based on what you describe I would expect to see water come from the aux air tank and unfortunately I do not know which one it is. Perhaps someone else knows.

Four. If you have an aux air compressor, I would simply disconnect the outgoing line and drain any water that may be in there.

For sure,you need to get the water out of the air system.

That is all I can think of at the moment.

Oh, before you disconnect the purge air line under the bed be sure to turn the shore water and water pump off and open the outside faucet in the propane bay to drain the water or you will flood the bus.
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  #14  
Old 03-20-2008
jwasnewski jwasnewski is offline
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Jim.
Some other thoughts.
I would not operate any other air operated systems until you verify the problem. This could place water into actuators and cause more work. Items such as the forward fresh air vents, driving lights, dump valves, horn etc.
The more I think about this problem, you have been sitting for 5 months. The only common link is the purge air system used for winterizing. I know of no other way for that much water to enter the air system.
One question. After you returned, hooked up and connected the water with the air up, did air come out of the water faucet similar to what happens if you drain the water then refill it and use it??
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  #15  
Old 03-30-2008
Jim Barone Jim Barone is offline
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Default Water system purge valve

LeRoy et al... Thanks so much for the thought you put into helping me with the water purge system. I have the bedroom torn apart and am looking at the system again. The pressurized air goes through the switch to a an adjustable pressure regulator then to a check valve and then to the top of the water filter system. The only way that water can get into the air system is to flow backwards through the check valve. I think there are several ways to repair this system...1) replace the check valve or 2) replace the check valve with an on/off ball valve or 3) take the filter out of the water system and cap off the air lines. I like your opinion of my analysis of the problem as well as your opinion of the best fix. Quick question...How does one disconnect the poly air lines from the fitting? Thanks again for your help. Jim
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  #16  
Old 03-30-2008
jwasnewski jwasnewski is offline
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Jim, as I previously posted, I have a ball valve above or after that check valve. If that check valve leaks and without the ball shut off valve it will back flow water to the complete air system assuming there is no air in the coach and that ain't good. I would presume that with the coach aired up and the purge switch activated air would be introduced into the water system. I suspect that my ball valve has been added at one point because I too have a check valve and an air pressure regulator. All three of your fixes should work. The latter will disable the air blow out capabilities for winterizing if I understand your description. I think the ball valve will solve the problem and leave the system with all capabilities as designed. Just put it after the check valve and before the filtration connection.
The poly lines are removed by pushing in the little gray clip and tugging on the line firmly, perhaps yank on it. Inside the fitting you will see an "O" ring that keeps it from leaking around the poly tube. I changed my tubing to copper from the ball valve to the filtration system because that portion always contains water.
Then you need to get the water out of the aux air system and I do not think draining the tank will do that.

Added info: If the Poly line is stuck you need to pull fairly hard, so don't bust up you hand when it comes out. I have. The check valve is a good idea but consider it has had water sitting in it for years and may never have been activated for winterizing hence a ball valve will do the trick.
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Last edited by jwasnewski; 03-30-2008 at 04:49 PM.
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  #17  
Old 03-30-2008
Jim Barone Jim Barone is offline
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Default Water purge valve

Thanks for the response LeRoy..Until I can repair it correctly ie. new check valve and ball valve, I bypassed the water filter..hooked the input line to the output line and then connected the input side of the filter to the output side of the filter with a short piece of hose. This will accomplish two things 1) no more water in the air system and 2) the water flow in the coach, after disabling the filter, has doubled so the filter needs some attention. Any suggestions on how to remove the accumulated water in the aux air system? As I operate the coach will the air dryer eventually remove the water? Thanks again for your help. Jim
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  #18  
Old 03-30-2008
jwasnewski jwasnewski is offline
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In short, no the dryer is set up to clear the water from engine compressed air before it gets to the system.
That is one of my concerns for your problem. You have stopped the issue for now. The problem is as follows if I understand the issue.
The water has made its way to the air system based upon your description, I expect only the aux system since the brake system is isolated. That is, you exercised the horn with a gurgeling noise, the step was sluggish, the dump valves puked water, the aux air chuck was blowing water, possibly the step cover or other air operated systems. If you have an air operated toilet that is isolated. My concern is that actuating the various air valves that operate these systems caused water to pass through and forward of the actuating valves.
I think but am not certain that the low point in the aux air system is the incoming line at the air step control valve. Perhaps others may have other opinions. Any help appreciated.
I really do not want to cause you a lot of extra work. However, if it was my coach I would do the following because you know water is in the system and it must be removed.
If you have shop air or a portable compressor pressurize the system at the schrader valve in the engine bay.
Loosen the incoming air at the air step and blow out as much water as possible. Stay away from the step, it will bite. Reconnect the line. Then, on the air step valve there are two brass adjustment gadgets that regulate the air step movement. Either remove them or open them up and exercise the step several times. That should evacuate most of the water from the step actuator.
Next, there are two screws on the air actuated dump valves that allow you to remove the guts of the valve. Drain any water from the interior of the dump valves by disconnecting the lines and blow out water in the incoming line with the compressed air. Do the same by removing the air chuck connector that you use to fill the tires. Just remove it and use the air to blow it out. Put a rag in front of it so as not to spoil your bay.
On the horns, I do not know where that control valve is but I would annoy the neighbors by blowing the horn until it sounds clear, then I would blow it some more.
On the other systems which you have not actuated such as the front fresh air vents, the driving lights, the step well cover, the bulk oil fill, I cannot think of anything else, hopefully most of the heavy water will have found its way to the low point step area.
If you have an aux air pump, disconnect the outgoing line, turn on the pump and blow any water in it. I do not have a schematic of that system and do not know if there is a check valve in it but I assume there is to prevent coach compressor air from blowing the aux pump out.
Then drain the tanks after pressurizing them.
Again, this is what I would do just because we know water is in the system. I hope I have helped you with this issue.
Others reading this thread should take head. Check your purge air to water system connection for integrity. Consider installing a small ball valve between somewhere between the air system and the water system. Water in the air system is not good.

Edit:1
I doubt that water can get to the air switch for the bulk oil fill because it is high in the engine bay. I would consider, based on what you find elsewhere, disconnecting the air line to the bulk oil fill and blowing is out also. You don't need water in the oil.
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Last edited by jwasnewski; 03-30-2008 at 08:16 PM.
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  #19  
Old 03-31-2008
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Bill Pape Bill Pape is offline
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Hi Leroy,

Would the air switch, regulator and check valve all need to fail to introduce water
inot the air system????
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  #20  
Old 03-31-2008
jwasnewski jwasnewski is offline
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Bill, after all this came up I immediately inspected my coach. I found the water side leaking slightly. Since I have a ball valve installed no water got into my system. The check valve would have to fail or get crud in it for sure, the pressure regulator has a manual adjustment and can leak backwards, most likely even if the adjustment is screwed down. One would think the switch should hold the water from back flowing but I would not trust that for a couple reasons. One it becomes the only line to defense when the check valve fails, and two, all of my air switches blow off air when they are moved. I have never had one of the air switches apart to look inside. Remember, this switch is only used after all the water is drained from the coach.
Based on Jim's experience and symptoms it is fairly clear that water is in his air system, how much remains to be determined.
I would install a simple ball valve to prevent this problem yet allows the system to operate as originally designed. It is cheap insurance, and takes about one hour to install.

There simply isn't anyway to know the thing is leaking until you activate the various air systems. By then it is to late because by doing so you blow water through the actuating valves into the actuating cylinder and you have a mess.
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Last edited by jwasnewski; 03-31-2008 at 10:14 AM.
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