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General Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach that are not covered in other Mechanic's Corner categories (ex. refrigerators, water heaters, and compressors).

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  #1  
Old 12-07-2008
NH Bill's Avatar
NH Bill NH Bill is offline
1983 FC 35 "Casa Billisa"
 
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Default Propane injection / mixing?

Hello all,

I searched the data base and did not find any information on the topic of propane injection /mixing for increasing power.

I have heard that propane injection /mixing is a way to get more power for hill pulling and acceleration. Some say it works well when done properly and others say its really bad for the life of an engine and dangerous.

I would like to know if anybody out there has tried this with a Vintage Bird or has first hand experience with it.

Thanks - Bill
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Bill and Lisa Garamella
83 FC-35 SB "Casa Billisa"
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD
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Last edited by NH Bill; 12-07-2008 at 12:04 PM. Reason: typo
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  #2  
Old 12-07-2008
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Mike Hohnstein Mike Hohnstein is offline
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Yup, Projection 2000 unit. Uses vapor, no mixer required. Adjustable, turbo boost controlled, can be set to inject at your preferred setting.
In my application with the gages I have to work with, 10#s is about max boost. With the propane, kicking in @ 7#s boost get right up to 14#s, very useful for getting up those pesky grades. It is not wise to exceed 15#s boost with a 3208 as the main bearing will take a hit. My engine would see 18#s, propane on, before I turned the fuel down, really strong acceleration, but I'm not into the crankshaft falling on the ground.
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  #3  
Old 12-07-2008
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Uh, oh yeah, I have a charge air cooler on my rig, those not so equipped may have different results. My EGTs don't go up on the propane even with the significant pressure increase. Pyrometer and boost gage are required if one is interested in enhancing diesel perfermance. Remember the Allison is rated @ 250 hp.
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  #4  
Old 12-07-2008
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Mike,

Most of the research I’ve done has addressed increased horse power such as in your application, used for climbing grades etc.

Do you have any experience in using the Propane system for increasing general efficiency and improved MPG?

Kurt Horvath
95 PT 42
10AC
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  #5  
Old 12-07-2008
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Bill,
If ya want more power buy Woody's 300hp with the ZF. That way you get 50 more hp, 5 speeds, and have a spare engine/trans in case you blow it up.

Just drive down to Randy's and join in the engine swap party.

To bad I did the trans in my coach, I probably could have applied the 7k + the towing and travel expenses towards the 300 engine. Of course it might have cost 2k to get the bus towed home, 8k to get in installed, and who knows what else. I did buy a lottery ticket, however.
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  #6  
Old 12-07-2008
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3208 turbo engines 250 hp and up are identical structurally. The difference is in the injector nozzles and the pump set up. The 300 has a charge air cooler and a road draft tube, the 250s have PCV valves. I turned my 250 up to 300 spec and added a charge air cooler. I have two PCV valves and get a good bit of oil in the intake system. The road draft tube will keep the intake free of oil, might go that way eventually. The propane really wakes the junk up, and theoretically it should help mileage some what, but I never checked as I don't use propane much, cost a lot ya know.
I would recommend a good bit of time examining a 87 up FC before committing to such an up grade on an older unit. Quite a bit of change you can believe in, including the fiber glass engine cover. And cutting a couple inches out of the fire wall to allow for the extra plumbing, etc. etc. Not for the faint of heart.
I'll try to email some pics to John Finn, maybe he'll post 'em.
MH
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  #7  
Old 12-08-2008
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Default 14 Photos Of Mikes Work

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Hohnstein View Post
I'll try to email some pics to John Finn, maybe he'll post 'em.
MH
Maybe I will, so here they are, plus a few more of Mike's modifications that I already had and having seen this in person I can tell you that he really does some nice work. I will let Mike explain what each picture is showing if anybody has questions, most of them are self explanatory.














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  #8  
Old 12-08-2008
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Mike and others,

I appreciate the information regarding the propane injection and the photos of the other mods too... very cool indeed!!

This may be more heavy lifting than I am willing to undertake but I'm not ruling it out.

Can you give me a ball park estimate for the cost for parts and time involved for the propane injection part of it?

BTW, My 83 is a 225 HP not the later 250, so I imagine I could really benefit from the propane squirter.

Obviously, you consider this to be a safe thing to do. However, it sounds like you are better equipped to deal with a system like this than a untrained tinkerer like myself.

It does not sound like many have gone down this path.. there must be a reason, because the benefits sound worth while. Now I'm wondering if I'm better off to forget this idea altogether.

Thanks - Bill
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  #9  
Old 12-08-2008
fxdwg fxdwg is offline
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Bill,
Tons of the diesel pickup world have gone down this path. As long as you're not trying for extreme levels of power, it appears to be a safe method of adding power to a diesel. Moderation is everything. I'd think I'd add it, get it set for a moderate level and let her go. I might consider being able to turn it on and off as needed, but changing the power level wouldn't be done on the fly.
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  #10  
Old 12-08-2008
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my self and randy have played with this on ford diesel pickups and myself in another life(trucking) played with the old 318 GMC engines and propane

it was nicknames the po' man's turbo yrs ago.....it will make more power and if---you have a aftercooler such as Mike H it will work great....with out a cooler and a good working set of gauges---you are asking for trouble!

i would run 5gal of propane for about 750 miles with 36000lb and then the bottle would run out and i would have to change it and run some more....

fun to make work(easy) and great power-----but larger inj and chip had the power every time you started the engine....and didnt have to find a propane dealer!!!

i will find some links and post them to call for you to ck out!

as Mike H said......no more than 13 psi boost(cat spec for the 3208) or you will blow HG or mains rods ect
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