Wanderlodge Owners Group  
BuyByeBlueBird.com
Donate

Go Back   Wanderlodge Owners Group > Mechanic's Corner > Engine

Engine Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's engine.

Site Search:
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 06-25-2019
markkitch markkitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Athens
Posts: 316
Default 1995 CAC pipe temp sensor

Hi guys,

What does this temp sensor control? where can they be purchased? I can't read the part numbers. Thanks!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20190620_170635.jpg
Views:	67
Size:	68.8 KB
ID:	62662   Click image for larger version

Name:	20190620_170710.jpg
Views:	75
Size:	37.2 KB
ID:	62663   Click image for larger version

Name:	20190620_170622.jpg
Views:	99
Size:	144.1 KB
ID:	62664   Click image for larger version

Name:	20190623_181645.jpg
Views:	92
Size:	157.2 KB
ID:	62665  
__________________

mark kitchens
Athens, Tx
1995 WB42
C: 214 477 3757
markkitch@aol.com
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-25-2019
Flyfisher Flyfisher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beverly Hills
Posts: 546
Default

That is a normally closed Kysor temperature switch with a 150 degree set point. When the charge air reaches the set point the switch opens, the solenoid valve in the hydraulic fan pilot line closes and the fan goes to high speed. Don’t know where you can source one though.
__________________


Andy & Jean Harmon
Dakota (our Aussie traveling buddy)
Beverly Hills, FL
1996 WB42 (SOLD)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-25-2019
jcs707's Avatar
jcs707 jcs707 is offline
In The Learning Curve
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 790
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyfisher View Post
That is a normally closed Kysor temperature switch with a 150 degree set point. When the charge air reaches the set point the switch opens, the solenoid valve in the hydraulic fan pilot line closes and the fan goes to high speed. Don’t know where you can source one though.
Andy, I know you did alot research into the fan system, how does this temp switch on charge air fit into overall hydraulic fan system? I don't know that I've seen this switch on my 95 but I assume it's there. I was only aware of the temp switch on the upper radiator hose. Is there a second thermo-valve on the pilot circuit?

__________________
---------------------------------------------------
Clint & Tammy Summers
Atlanta GA

1995 WB 42 "The Magic Carpet" sold
--------
1977 FC 31 RB "BUSTA BUS"
(Possibly for sale Fall 2020)
---------
2000 LXI SS "Piper"

Semper Fi
----------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-25-2019
markkitch markkitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Athens
Posts: 316
Default

Clint- quick comment- your diagrams are absolutely fantastic. When I first discovered them it made me really happy we both have 1995 birds.

I was wondering if this sensor provided an additional temp monitoring of the CAC air to the intake manifold. I have the ability to monitor this in silverleaf but it always shows 0, my thought was maybe it related to this sensor and this sensor is bad (for me)?
__________________

mark kitchens
Athens, Tx
1995 WB42
C: 214 477 3757
markkitch@aol.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-25-2019
Flyfisher Flyfisher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beverly Hills
Posts: 546
Default

Quote:
Andy, I know you did alot research into the fan system, how does this temp switch on charge air fit into overall hydraulic fan system? I don't know that I've seen this switch on my 95 but I assume it's there. I was only aware of the temp switch on the upper radiator hose. Is there a second thermo-valve on the pilot circuit?
The Kysor switch is located in the CAC cold pipe, it sticks out of the bend in the pipe just before it goes into the hose connection at the engine air manifold. Just look between the right end of the expansion tank and the rear electrical box, you can't miss it. The thermostatic valve is in the upper radiator supply pipe from the engine thermostat housing. Its not a switch, its a regulating valve and is supposed to modulate fan speed in response to engine coolant temperature, its range is 190 - 205 degrees F. Its normally open and begins to close at 190 degrees F. Problem with the DDEC III engines is the engine thermostats have the same temperature modulation curve and they compete with one another to cool the engine, when the engine thermostats should have priority. The thermostatic valve temperature curve should be something like 195 - 210 degrees F or greater. That's why once the engine is up to operating temperature the fan is running on high because the thermostatic valve is closed. I've been experimenting with this for awhile with different engine thermostats and it is not working out the way I had hoped, another story. Your drawing should only show the thermostatic valve in the coolant pipe that regulates flow in the pilot line to the switching valve on the fan motor, there is no temperature switch in the pilot line. There's only one component, suggest combining the two symbols and don't call it a switch.

Quote:
I was wondering if this sensor provided an additional temp monitoring of the CAC air to the intake manifold. I have the ability to monitor this in silverleaf but it always shows 0, my thought was maybe it related to this sensor and this sensor is bad (for me)?
The Kysor switch is not a sensor and provides no monitoring signals to the DDEC, it is strictly there to turn the fan to high when combustion air reaches 150 degrees F. The DDEC monitors combustion air temperature from another sensor in the engine air manifold, that's what can provide you monitoring capability via a Silverleaf if you set it up. The Kysor switch is normally closed and when the set point is reached it opens breaking the circuit to the hydraulic pilot line normally closed solenoid valve, which upon loss of power closes and the fan goes to high speed, same as when the thermostatic valve closes. Crank you engine and unplug the Kysor switch and see what happens.
__________________


Andy & Jean Harmon
Dakota (our Aussie traveling buddy)
Beverly Hills, FL
1996 WB42 (SOLD)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-25-2019
markkitch markkitch is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Athens
Posts: 316
Default

Thanks Andy, exactly what I needed to know.

I have my air inlet temp which I thought was being measured in the engine manifold (at the intake). Maybe this is being measured somewhere else? There is no sensor on the air filter? I had mistakenly thought the intake manifold temp was they Kysor switch. My intake manifold temp sensor has never indicated, so I assumed the sensor was bad. Anyway, I need to research a little more.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20190529_221145.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	88.6 KB
ID:	62666  
__________________

mark kitchens
Athens, Tx
1995 WB42
C: 214 477 3757
markkitch@aol.com
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-25-2019
Flyfisher Flyfisher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beverly Hills
Posts: 546
Default

Mark test your Kysor switch with a volt meter, hot water and a thermometer. You should have continuity through the switch until water temp reaches approx. 150 degrees F. It should be marked on the switch what the set point temp is, 150 is what the chassis drawing states, so it could be different in your bus.

Some of the Silverleaf input parameters have to be defined before they will read, that's likely what the problem is, not a bad air manifold sensor. If the sensor is bad the DDEC will throw a flash code and possibly the check engine or shut down light will come on. You can read and clear all the flash codes that have been issued in the Silverleaf diagnostic history.
__________________


Andy & Jean Harmon
Dakota (our Aussie traveling buddy)
Beverly Hills, FL
1996 WB42 (SOLD)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-26-2019
jcs707's Avatar
jcs707 jcs707 is offline
In The Learning Curve
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 790
Default

Thanks Andy ... I'll correct the diagram.

I'm assuming that the only time the Kysor temp switch on charge air would turn the fan on high is if the CAC were under-performing in some way <prior> to the engine getting to normal operating temp - since as you pointed out - at normal operating temp the thermovalve in the upper radiator hose will turn the fan on high anyway.

So there are (4) ways the fan will go into high:

1. Thermovalve in upper radiator hose (i.e., coolant temp).
2. Fan over-ride dash switch.
3. Turning on dash air.
4. Kysor temp switch in charge air (i.e., combustion air temp).

Does the fan over-ride switch somehow utilize the same 'normally closed' solenoid that the Kysor temp switch does?
__________________
---------------------------------------------------
Clint & Tammy Summers
Atlanta GA

1995 WB 42 "The Magic Carpet" sold
--------
1977 FC 31 RB "BUSTA BUS"
(Possibly for sale Fall 2020)
---------
2000 LXI SS "Piper"

Semper Fi
----------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-26-2019
Flyfisher Flyfisher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Beverly Hills
Posts: 546
Default

Quote:
I'm assuming that the only time the Kysor temp switch on charge air would turn the fan on high is if the CAC were under-performing in some way <prior> to the engine getting to normal operating temp - since as you pointed out - at normal operating temp the thermovalve in the upper radiator hose will turn the fan on high anyway.

So there are (4) ways the fan will go into high:

1. Thermovalve in upper radiator hose (i.e., coolant temp).
2. Fan over-ride dash switch.
3. Turning on dash air.
4. Kysor temp switch in charge air (i.e., combustion air temp).

Does the fan over-ride switch somehow utilize the same 'normally closed' solenoid that the Kysor temp switch does?
The Kysor switch and the thermovalve are independent in function and control of fan speed. Variables that might cause the Kysor switch to turn the fan on high are really hot summer days, foreign material clogging the CAC core or not enough air flow preventing it from removing heat from charge combustion air. DD states the operating limit for charge air is no greater than 30 degrees F over ambient temperature, but ultimately they don't want it much hotter than 150 degrees F though. I don't believe the DDEC III module knows what ambient temperature is though.

The defroster also turns the fan on high because the AC compressor engages. Then there's the air powered toilet, I think it turns it on high too..... (BB humor)

Yes, the pilot line solenoid valve is the same for all fan speed controls, its mounted right below the fan motor on the support and is in series with the thermovalve in the pilot line circuit. It fails closed on a loss of power taking the fan to high speed. All the switches above kill power to it to control fan speed to high.
__________________


Andy & Jean Harmon
Dakota (our Aussie traveling buddy)
Beverly Hills, FL
1996 WB42 (SOLD)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-26-2019
jcs707's Avatar
jcs707 jcs707 is offline
In The Learning Curve
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 790
Default

modified diagram - now includes charge air sensor.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	95-96 Hydraulics_Overview_Diagram-v2.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	188.5 KB
ID:	62699  
__________________
---------------------------------------------------
Clint & Tammy Summers
Atlanta GA

1995 WB 42 "The Magic Carpet" sold
--------
1977 FC 31 RB "BUSTA BUS"
(Possibly for sale Fall 2020)
---------
2000 LXI SS "Piper"

Semper Fi
----------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HELP with temp sensor ttbuster Engine 82 10-27-2018 11:36 AM
Xantrex temp sensor turnkey Electrical 5 12-29-2017 10:38 PM
Adding Temp Sensor to my MT643 TKuhlman Transmission 11 05-01-2014 01:48 PM
Tranny temp sensor? Rick Davis Transmission 23 01-21-2014 08:27 PM
Water Temp Sensor slckpurdy General 0 03-10-2010 10:58 AM

Web Search:

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.