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BMC (Bluebird Motor Coach Unique Issues) If you have a unique issue with your BMC coach and it can't be answered in one of the other forums here, then this is where you can list it.....List your BMC Parts here too.

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  #1  
Old 04-07-2013
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Buckeye Bird Buckeye Bird is offline
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Default Xantrex AC pass through

I am posting this for future reference for BMC owners and any other coaches that have the relay set for running certain circuits on inverter. In my coach there are 6 of these relays.

I had installed a new Instant Hot during the winter and was un-winterizing the water system yesterday. This morning I tried the Instant Hot and it worked great, however I found there to be a problem in that I could not kill the power to the Instant Hot receptacle at the breaker panel. It was being fed through one of those relays even though I was plugged into shore power (inverter off)
What I ended up finding was that the Xantrex 3012 was passing through the AC power IN to the AC OUT wiring (normally for inverter power) and was feeding the 6 relays. Those 6 circuits were then only protected by the single breaker in the Xantrex, even though there was still AC power going to the main panel from the transfer switch. I could kill the power to those relays only by shutting off the breaker for the Xantrex.
After looking over the wiring diagrams I realized that I had used Line 1 for AC out and I should have been on Line 2 to keep it from passing AC power through to the relays. It would be easy to overlook this as I used the coach all last year with it wired this way and it caused no issues, but you would not want to keep it that way. If your inverter has been changed in the past it might be a good idea to plug in an AC test plug and make sure that the power to the circuits that are on with inverter power are actually being turned off when plugged into shore power and the breaker is shut off.
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Old 04-07-2013
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I found a 3012 manual online (Rev B) with a 2012 copyright:

http://www.xantrex.com/documents/Inv...-01_Rev-B).pdf

On P.12 it describes the two AC outputs and how they work:

----
"In Invert mode, the Freedom SW connects L1 and L2 output lines together
to provide 120 volts AC to loads on either line. In AC Bypass mode, the
source connected to the AC input is passed through to the load. Because of
the way invert mode operates, only 120 volts AC appliances can be
connected to the Freedom SW output."
----

Unless there is yet another mode the 3012 can run in, it sounds like the Xantrex outputs will be outputting whenever it is on and inverting or connected to AC.

I'm not sure what the implication is when the load is fed by the main panel and the pass-thru, but they recommend a sub-panel to run inverter or bypass power to the loads that will run on the inverter. With the sub-panel, all AC to those loads would come from inverter or bypass in the 3012, and would have a sub-panel breaker.

--Ned
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Old 04-08-2013
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I probably should have been more precise in describing the inverter/charger that I have. It is the RV3012GS, which is a MSW inverter.
The manual for it is here: http://www.altestore.com/mmsolar/oth..._GS_Manual.pdf

On page 2-8 there is one sentence that I did not pick up on when installing the inverter: "Use line 1 for AC input if only one line is necessary. If only line 2 is used, the inverter/charger will not transfer power."
Also, at the time I installed it I was not aware of the 6 relays which handle the circuits to be powered on inverter.

Most of the inverter/chargers seem to have the capability to pass through AC power, but may handle that differently than this one. With the relays handling inverter loads you still would not want the AC power to pass through to them when hooked to a shore line. I am just posting this as informational and if turning a breaker off does not shut down a circuit, this may be the reason.
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Last edited by Buckeye Bird; 04-08-2013 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 04-09-2013
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Default Circuits

I am no electrical guy, but I'm not sure the 95's are wired like that. I have the Freedom 25 inverter (original I'm sure) and I think I have circuit breakers for all my AC circuits. I did solve the Instant Hot problem (you had to unplug it or cut the circuit to it and the ice maker to turn it off) and the plug was way back under the sink so I added a wire to the box in the back and switch so now I can turn it off just by reaching inside the cabinet door. Much better!
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Old 04-09-2013
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Lee,

Is your whole main panel hot when you are running the inverter ?
If not, it probably has the relays. There are pictures of them in this post from Robert Britton.

http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.co...96&postcount=1

They would most likely be in your driver side closet on the outside wall with a carpeted cover. If you could kill the power to the Instant Hot from the breaker then yours is wired correctly anyways, even if you have the relays.
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Old 04-10-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye Bird View Post
Lee,

Is your whole main panel hot when you are running the inverter ?
If not, it probably has the relays. There are pictures of them in this post from Robert Britton.

http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.co...96&postcount=1

They would most likely be in your driver side closet on the outside wall with a carpeted cover. If you could kill the power to the Instant Hot from the breaker then yours is wired correctly anyways, even if you have the relays.
My 97 has those six relays inside the bedroom closet behind a carpeted panel.
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Old 04-10-2013
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Brad, do you have your original inverter ?
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Old 04-10-2013
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As far as I know, it is original. It is a Trace 3000 watt MSW inverter/charger.
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Old 04-10-2013
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It probably is original. The earlier BMC's seemed to have come with Heart 2500's from the factory.

My only concern here is that if someone had a new inverter installed using the existing wiring setup, it would be very easy for someone (rv "techs" included) to wire it so that there was power going into those relays from 2 sources, (when on shoreline) the main panel and the wire from the inverter via the "pass through" feature of the inverter. That creates a situation where the incoming power cannot be shut off at the breaker in the main panel, and may not even go through those breakers. The only way to make sure this isn't happening is to have the inverter NOT pass through AC power on the "AC out" wire while on shoreline.
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Old 04-11-2013
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Default Inverter relays -- new owners be aware

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye Bird View Post
It probably is original. The earlier BMC's seemed to have come with Heart 2500's from the factory.

My only concern here is that if someone had a new inverter installed using the existing wiring setup, it would be very easy for someone (rv "techs" included) to wire it so that there was power going into those relays from 2 sources, (when on shoreline) the main panel and the wire from the inverter via the "pass through" feature of the inverter. That creates a situation where the incoming power cannot be shut off at the breaker in the main panel, and may not even go through those breakers. The only way to make sure this isn't happening is to have the inverter NOT pass through AC power on the "AC out" wire while on shoreline.
This is a vital warning that you've posted. I understand now.

I think this should be a sticky topic or discussed more often on the WOG.

I will go one further: Sellers (not just BMC) who haven't taken responsibility for the inverter wiring should make that plain to the ultimate buyer before they turn over the keys. The warnings are there in the owner manual, but who reads that first?

These hazards exist, and electrocutions do happen, but in the case of inverters/relays versus shore power/generator, they are preventable.

Thanks Dan.
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Last edited by iamflagman; 04-11-2013 at 04:23 AM.
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