Wanderlodge Owners Group  
BuyByeBlueBird.com
Donate

Go Back   Wanderlodge Owners Group > Mechanic's Corner > BMC (Bluebird Motor Coach Unique Issues)

BMC (Bluebird Motor Coach Unique Issues) If you have a unique issue with your BMC coach and it can't be answered in one of the other forums here, then this is where you can list it.....List your BMC Parts here too.

Site Search:
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 03-22-2009
AC7880 AC7880 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Left the Forums
Posts: 1,346
Default BMC Cruise Control inop

This is on a 94 Bluebird BMC 37', spartan chassis, Cummns 8.3, Allison 3060 transmission.

The cruise control on my 94 BB BMC 37' is inop. It worked fine on the last trip. Since the last trip, I had Allison service my transmission, and move the trans dipstick from right to left side to solve a recurring leak, and had Cummins adjust the valves. These 2 services may be related as the cruise worked prior to these services -or may be unrelated.

I checked the physical linkage at the throttle, and it all looks ok (also lubed while I was checking it). I checked wire harness's under the allison I could access - look ok.

In the front drivers compartment directly under the transmission shift pad, there is the wiring harness for the cruise.

Red wire - pwr for cruise - ok has power
Blue ecm pwr wire - ok has pwr
Green lamp pwr - no volts wether cruise on or off
white cancel cruise - no pwr when pressing cancel
yellow set cruise - no pwr when pressing set
black grnd - looks ok

The harness containing these wires disappear forward and downward.

I just looked thru my bluebox - little info on the cruise. The spartan book in the blue box shows a optional bendix cruise option, and a Dana Rostra electronic cruise. At this point I cannot determine which I have. Also, I cannot find a fuse/breaker for the cruise.

I am on the road again tomorrow, will be in one place for one week starting Tuesday.

I have no idea where to start - any advice?
__________________
Sold the BMC, left the forums.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-22-2009
Rob Robinson's Avatar
Rob Robinson Rob Robinson is offline
Forum Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Victoria
Posts: 4,384
Default

Dan do a search here on WOG and you'll come across a detailed account of my cruise problem and what Randy and I did to fix it
__________________
Rob Robinson
Victoria, British Columbia
1999 LXi
Moderator
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-22-2009
bwinter1946's Avatar
bwinter1946 bwinter1946 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Madera
Posts: 4,060
Default

Dan,

If your 94 is like my 97 when you depress the Green "Cruise Master Power" switch/light above the does it light up? If not, I would start there and try to trace that back. I say that because you said: "Green lamp pwr - no volts wether cruise on or off." I don't think anything works on the cruise unless the Master is enabled.

Unfortunately I do not know where it goes.

Good luck.
__________________
Brad Winter
Madera, California
1997, 37' BMC
1999, Jeep Cherokee, Toad
1970, VW Baja Bug, Alternate Toad
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-22-2009
AC7880 AC7880 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Left the Forums
Posts: 1,346
Default

Nope - no light. I need to figure out where the ecu for the cruise is. No fuse or circuit breaker that I can find so far. I have not checked the rear 12 volt fuses under the 110 volt box yet.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bwinter1946 View Post
Dan,

If your 94 is like my 97 when you depress the Green "Cruise Master Power" switch/light above the does it light up? If not, I would start there and try to trace that back. I say that because you said: "Green lamp pwr - no volts wether cruise on or off." I don't think anything works on the cruise unless the Master is enabled.

Unfortunately I do not know where it goes.

Good luck.
__________________
Sold the BMC, left the forums.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-23-2009
Kurt Achenbach Kurt Achenbach is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cocoa
Posts: 127
Default

Had the cruise Control quit on my '97 37' BMC on the way to Giorgia. Had George
Morris at John Bleakley in Unadilla GA (877 456 3700)look at it. George had a
copy of the schematics of the Cruise Control from his BB days. George together
with Johnny Dunaway fixed the problem. It has been fine ever since. As I recall
the problem was on the right side on the engine.
Don't knoow if this helpes but having access to schematics may.
__________________
Kurt Achenbach
97' BB BMC 37'
Cocoa, FL
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-23-2009
bwinter1946's Avatar
bwinter1946 bwinter1946 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Madera
Posts: 4,060
Default

Dan,

I looked at my 97 and on the forward, outside panel area just outside of the Drivers seat there are a number of terminal strips. I think it was the second one down from the top there is a terminal labeled "Cruise Power". I checked with a voltmeter and with nothing turned on except battery master (keys, engine, etc, all off) I read battery voltage. Does yours? Don't know if that helps.

I do think though your problem may be related to the service you just had done. My experience with some mechanics is they disturb wiring, move it out of the way, or disconnect plugs and then forget to reconnect them back up. I would give the area a good look.

Two Examples: On my SOB coach: After an front air bag change the mechanic forgot to reconnect the upper shock mount back up. Another moved a brake flex line and if I had not checked it would have broken/pulled the line after a hard left hand turn.

Always something.

Hope your travels go well today.
__________________
Brad Winter
Madera, California
1997, 37' BMC
1999, Jeep Cherokee, Toad
1970, VW Baja Bug, Alternate Toad

Last edited by bwinter1946; 03-23-2009 at 06:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-25-2009
AC7880 AC7880 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Left the Forums
Posts: 1,346
Default

A couple of updates on my search for the cause of the inop BMC cruise control (CC). The rear 12 v load center breakers/fuses do not have anything to do with CC. No front main load center fuses/breakers for CC.

At right rear midway up the cummins block is "Eco Cruise Actuator", with 4 wires in - connecter looks fine. Cable out to throttle, cable and connection of cable to throttle fine.

I have checked every connector on trans and engine that could have been disturbed by valve adjustment, or by trans service - all look fine. I have checked brake light operation and brake bulbs all look fine so no errant brake signal to controller that I can find.

I did recall one item that may well have caused this. When I pulled a new antenna cable for the roof cell antenna, I pulled from left to center through dash by instrument panel. When completed, the speedo did not work. I opened the dash - and there is little room to work due to wire lengths to gauges etc. A BIG maze of wires and connectors. I found one matching loose wire to speedo connection, rec-connected - and speedo worked. When I pulled the antenna cable it pulled this connector loose.

My next task is to re-open this dash, and maze of wires, and see if there is another loose wire near speedo head that may feed to the cruise signal.

Doing family stuff with daugter and grandkids most of the days I am here in Lawton OK, so will get to that as soon as possible.

Does anyone agree, or have actual knowledge of that I "may" be on the right track with this next step of a wire near speedo head leading back into cruise control?
__________________
Sold the BMC, left the forums.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-25-2009
AC7880 AC7880 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Left the Forums
Posts: 1,346
Default

I need the assistance of a ambitious BMC 37' owner.

If you open the instrument panel dash by removing the screws and tipping the dash outward, and look down at the speedo head:
There is a small grey 3 wire harness coming out of the speedo, with a white, red, and black wire in the harness.

When my speedo quit working after I pulled the antenna cable, I found a matching white wire and reconnected it - the speedo then worked registering MPH.

I can't find a matching red or black wire/connector. Can a BMC owner look and see if their black and/or red wire is connected on the feed to the speedo in the grey 3 wire harness?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC7880 View Post
I did recall one item that may well have caused this. When I pulled a new antenna cable for the roof cell antenna, I pulled from left to center through dash by instrument panel. When completed, the speedo did not work. I opened the dash - and there is little room to work due to wire lengths to gauges etc. A BIG maze of wires and connectors. I found one matching loose wire to speedo connection, rec-connected - and speedo worked. When I pulled the antenna cable it pulled this connector loose.

My next task is to re-open this dash, and maze of wires, and see if there is another loose wire near speedo head that may feed to the cruise signal.
__________________
Sold the BMC, left the forums.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-26-2009
bwinter1946's Avatar
bwinter1946 bwinter1946 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Madera
Posts: 4,060
Default

OK. Dan welcome back on the forum.

I hope your travels went well.

I am still concerned about the lack of power/light at the Cruise Master Switch. Did you check to see if you have power at the terminal strip I talked about in an earlier post?

On to your question: The guages in my BMC are VDOs.

I looked up the schematic for the Electronic Speedo here: http://www.egauges.com/pdf/vdo/0-515-012-051.pdf

Section II talks about the wiring the Speedo and the red, white and black wires. On my street rod I used the hall effect sensor and I remember running a gray cable with three wires, shielded cable, from the sensor to the speedo.

There is also listed an older version of the speedo that we might have. Check here for additional help or the older style guage: http://www.egauges.com/Inst_PDF.asp


Hope it helps if not let me know, and I will what else we can do.
__________________
Brad Winter
Madera, California
1997, 37' BMC
1999, Jeep Cherokee, Toad
1970, VW Baja Bug, Alternate Toad
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-26-2009
AC7880 AC7880 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Left the Forums
Posts: 1,346
Default

Hi Brad,

I do have good voltage at the terminal labeled "Cruise Power".

It also sucessfully passes on this voltage to the harness for the cruise controls on the dash at drivers left arm as follows:

Red wire from cruise control switch on dash - wire labeled pwr for cruise - ok has good voltage

Blue wire labeled ecm pwr wire - this wire should send volts from the switch back to the ecu - ok has good voltage with cruise button down.

Green wire labeled lamp pwr - no volts wether cruise on or off (thus no green light on switch).

white wire labeled cancel cruise - no voltage at any time including when pressing cancel

yellow wire labeled set cruise - no voltage at any time including when pressing set

black wire labeled grnd - looks ok

I plan to retest this harness under the drivers window from the cruise control "button" today or tomorrow.

I also plan to take the voltmeter and test light under the coach to the ECO actuator at the Cummins bock and see what I get for voltage there.

Question: On your coach, with ignition key on motor not running, yellow park brake on, no foot on brake under dash, do you get the green cruise light on? How about with cummins motor running, yellow park brake on, no foot on brake under dash, but coach at standstill (no speed signal to the cruise control)?

I am looking over the VDO Speedo schematics (thanks for those - they help). I can't read the numbers (if any) on the speedo, but wire wise and appearance wise mine matches this one: http://www.egauges.com/pdf/vdo/0-511-011-348.pdf type B, 5 wire speedo.

From the FAQs at VDO: SPEEDOMETER GAUGE QUESTIONS:
Will VDO Speedo work with my Electrical controlled Transmission?
Answer: Yes, VDO Speedo’s will work with electrical transmissions which include OE VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensors). (Our BMCs use the speed sensor, not a hall effect - so maybe only the white wire on the 3 wire harness is in use?)

I still need a physical look at the speedo wires on another BMC with 5 wire speedo with the mechanical(analog) odometer/trip meter not LCD odometer/trip memter-- all VDO wires may not be in use on the BMC. I say this because I do get good speed readings on the speedo with only the white wire on the 3 wire harness hooked up, and because I can't see (in the limited space and maze of wires), a missing connection point for the black and red wire (in the 3 wire harness - the seperate red/black are hooked up correctly).

It is possible though that my 94 and your 97 use different cruise setup, though they do sound similar on the terminal strip under drivers window, and the green cruise light.




Quote:
Originally Posted by bwinter1946 View Post
I am still concerned about the lack of power/light at the Cruise Master Switch. Did you check to see if you have power at the terminal strip I talked about in an earlier post?


There is also listed an older version of the speedo that we might have. Check here for additional help or the older style guage: http://www.egauges.com/Inst_PDF.asp

__________________
Sold the BMC, left the forums.

Last edited by AC7880; 03-26-2009 at 07:53 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bendix Cruise Control and Throttle control?? Frank W. FC (Forward Control Unique Issues) 61 08-11-2010 10:26 PM
1981fc Cruise control ryoung Vehicle Issues 23 02-08-2010 06:23 PM
Cruise Control Recall? Lee Davis Vehicle and Equipment Recalls 3 11-13-2008 06:40 PM
Brandon Distributing, Inc. (CRUISE CONTROL PARTS) iamflagman Vendors 0 07-01-2008 11:40 AM

Web Search:

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.