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Old 08-06-2014
K Sarich K Sarich is offline
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Default Lithium battery install

The last of this summer's major projects on Pretty Penny is replacing her failing AGM's with Lithium Phosphate batteries. As the freight companies were not too keen on delivering the 400# box to our friends's residence (where we park/live when not in the mountains) we arranged for a will call pickup at the local terminal, which is 90 miles away.

Got up early, headed out under sunny skies, stopped for breakfast on the way and arrived at the terminal in a pouring thunderstorm. After loading the box into the back of the truck I drove both quickly and smoothly to Lowe's for a tarp berating myself for not bringing a tarp in the first place and worrying equally about possibly damaging some unprotected piece of electronics.

Got it wrapped up and headed home under clearing skies.

What a nice surprise when i opened up the box. I fully expected to be looking at (4)-loose batteries and some damp cardboard boxes containing the battery monitor and solenoid as well a set of instructions that might be more suitable for a paper mache project.

Well you can see in the pictures what I saw, a fully assembled system ready to go. What a present !!!

Next I thought, uh.... is it going to fit on the battery slide the way they assembled it? Yes, barely with a bit of modification. Then I thought how am I going to get this thing out of the truck before the next thunderstorm rolls in? Only one way as there was no forklift to be had...first take a bunch of pictures then grab the tools and disassemble.

The pictures show the complete 1000 amp/hr. unit, the monitor to prevent over/under charging along with a 600 amp fuse and disconnect safety solenoid, and various shots taken during the disassembly.
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Old 08-06-2014
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susanmarycamilleri susanmarycamilleri is offline
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Kevin
Please document this, suppliers, cost, install, this is the future. Have followed one on the New ell forum, this is the way to go, especially if full timing. A 1000 amp hour system in lead acid would require a 2000 amp hour system, that is 1100 pounds.
Thank you for starting this thread.
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Old 08-06-2014
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Old 08-06-2014
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i am alos very interested in this project.

Now,for us electronic dummys!
Give us the pros and cons of these batteries versus lead acid,or gel,or glass mat batteries.

Life expectancy,weight,and all that stuff.

Thanks!!
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Old 08-06-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Dupree View Post
i am alos very interested in this project.

Now,for us electronic dummys!
Give us the pros and cons of these batteries versus lead acid,or gel,or glass mat batteries.

Life expectancy,weight,and all that stuff.

Thanks!!
Ditto here!
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Old 08-06-2014
folivier folivier is offline
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You'll love them. I know I'm loving my setup:
http://newellgurus.com/Thread-Lithium-battery-install
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Old 08-06-2014
K Sarich K Sarich is offline
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Hey I'm in the electrical dummy group, just a step above testing a transistor radio battery with my tongue.

Our backstory is our only battery options were Gel, AGM or Lithium. Because BB designed our battery compartment with the inverters directly above (4) of the (6) 4D batteries it was not possible to use standard wet cells. If we could have used Costco golf cart batteries we might have.

In real rough #'s (6)- Deka's $2,700+tax, (6)-Lifeline $3,400 or these Lithium $3,600 + shipping from Balqon. There are additional costs with the Lithium depending on if your charging system is set up for them.

Before I go any farther I strongly suggest reading Forest's thread. I am just following in his foot steps and thank him for leading the way. The following is just my summation up to this point as to why we chose Lithium.

Positives:
Weight: (4)- cells@90lbs. each. vs. (6)- AGM's @135lbs each. A 400lb. savings.
Depth of Discharge is 80% vs 50% so my 1250ah Lion have 1000 useful amps vs. roughly 600 useful amps for the AGMs.
These are Lithium-phospate and not the same chemical composition as the Lithium batteries that can over heat and catch fire.
Discharge curve is very flat.
Charge cycles is 2,000 vs. 300-800 for lead acid.
Charge rate is 1:1 If I could charge them at 1250amps they'd accept it with no negative effects.

They are happy receiving only a partial charge, no need to take them the whole way to the top if time doesn't allow.
The last two positives are the most important to us as we hate running the generator waiting for the AGM's to top off. Blast'm with amps and move on. In fact you shouldn't trickle charge these.

Negatives:
If you take the DOD to zero you've killed them.
If you overcharge them or hit them with too high a voltage you may kill them.
As each cell is 3.2 +volts and you use (4) in series to achieve a 13.4 resting volts if one cell goes bad you're done until you can get a replacement cell.
Since they can charge at a such a high amperage they can tax the alternator.
Chargers should be programmable or have an AGM setting.
Cells need to have identical voltages prior to combining.


Solutions:
Each Lithium cell has a sensor that measures it's voltage and then feeds the info to a controller. If the voltages are too high or low then the system will use the solenoid to disconnect the batteries and sound an alarm. You can then find the problem and reset the system. To solve the alternator issue I again followed Forest's lead and bought the programmable Balmar MC-614-H regulator w/ alternator temp. sensor from Baltimore Battery for $300. During installation of the Balmar regulator my master mechanic friend discovered that the currently installed Delco Remy is adjustable. So we have that for backup if needed. As our inverter/chargers are programmable we didn't pursue other alternatives, but I believe people have found work arounds for older chargers or simply kept their older inverter chargers and purchased a new separate charger. In our case the cells were balanced and combined prior to shipping.
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Old 08-06-2014
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Lots of info here:

http://www.technomadia.com/2012/09/a...-rv-batteries/

Mike
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Old 08-06-2014
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Exciting but exhausting reading! I love new technology especially when combined with LED's and solar panels.
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Old 08-06-2014
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Originally Posted by garynmike View Post
Exciting but exhausting reading! I love new technology especially when combined with LED's and solar panels.
I also find this a very interesting thread and like they say on The Big Bang Theory if we can somehow incorporate Blue Tooth we're golden VBG.
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