Ideas needed re. Heating coolant before startup

[MRPutz]

Originally Posted by sandy dyas

I have been doing veggie oil for about ten years.I Have saved about 30000.00 in that time.
It's a lot of work, but is it worth it? Filtering it right is the most important thing. Then heating it properly is next.

That's good info Sandy. Have you noticed that it's getting harder and harder to do now that everyone is trying to do it and the store owners are wising up to the fact their waste has value?

Assuming your numbers are correct then you saved $3,000 a year but at what expense? Setup costs, hassles of finding the oil, getting to it, pumping it out, filter/pump expense? Do you still think it is a worth while path for someone just starting out? In a big city (such as Phx) getting used oil can be an issue, wonder if it's easier in rural areas?

[sandy dyas]

Michael I think you're right I did it when itwas easyand restaurants had to pay for the for the disposal.l have to go. I will be back next week

[MRPutz]

Look forward to your experiences. I just feel that opportunity was a nice wave to ride but now not worth the expense and effort? I saw a lot of people go this route years ago when I was doing conversions but not too many stuck with it so would be interested in hearing your experiences and funny mishaps.. on come one, there's always funny mishaps.

[biobug]

I am with you Sandy. I have greased for 11 years now . Contrary to what I have been warned about ,I have yet to have a mechanical breakdown although in my VW TDI I have expected the injector pump to fail from abuse I have given it but with 125,000 miles on grease, I still drive it to work every day. I have friends in the TDI club that have had major issues on diesel at 1/2 the miles it has now. My Dodge Cummins has 223,000 miles now and that was mostly on grease with no issues. I know it is a lot of work, but I will continue till I can't roll 55 gallon drums of wvo around.

[Rob Robinson]

Okay it's time for you guys to tell your tales of WVO. Years ago Randy and I went to see a fellow who was for lack of a better term a "Greenie" He had a micro coffee bean roasting company and dealt only with 'fair trade' partners. In keeping with his apparent green philosophy he had a WVO GM Suburban. It wouldn't run and if memory serves me he thought it might have been the alternator. Here's where Randy steps in and tells you the whole story including the Glen saga.......

[1derer]

It looks like this thread may be headed to the controversy shredder. Plenty of vege oil controversy and anecdotes can be found in other threads on this site.

Anybody who wants to know about doing wvo (aka svo) ought to read the short book by Forest Gregg. I was inspired to do so when restaurants were paying people to take away their used cooking oil. It's true that now some get paid for it, but many still just dump it, though now they don't have to pay for the privilege. I like to pay 50cents/gallon so they'll remember me, even if they'd just as soon get nothing. The thing about using wvo is you really should alter your vehicle to use it. This expense can inspire you to investigate an alternative: using the cooking oil you think to collect to make biodiesel instead. This requires about the same time and hardware to prepare as straight vege oil (svo) does, but allows you to skip altering your vehicle (as much). The short book by Maria Alovert is the biodiesel primer you should read.

Now, back to the issue of getting the most out of svo by warming it up before driving off:

Webasto advocates:
Webasto's site doesn't address fueling it with vege oil. If that's possible it's thrilling because I currently heat air and water with propane (that costs about the same as diesel). Vege heating these as well as the coolant would turn this ride into a freebie. I just emailed Webasto and am told I'll be replied to in German. - I'm not optimistic about the likely answer: I believe forum member Stevels couldn't get his diesel genny running on vege because it needed a spray finer than vege is capable of. A search on greasecar.com for webasto indicated one reader hadn't heard of Webasto running on vege. Even if it'll do it on heated vege (which could take care of hot water and comfort heating), will it do it on unheated vege that's more viscous at 70, 50, 30, 0 degrees farenheit that would be needed to heat the coolant that makes the vege more runny? -- If anybody here suggesting webasto knows the combustion process, please speak up, as I couldn't learn about it from the webasto site.


Mike - Please tell more about your idea of using a diesel boiler to heat the coolant / grease. I'm not hip to diesel boilers.


I have heard of people running comfort heaters on vege and will look into how they start up.

[Randy Dupree]

Mikes talking about heating with a Webasto,or aquahot or some brand of diesel boiler.

I have a huge diesel boiler on my house,heating water for radiant heat.
Its a 400,000 BTU military surplus boiler.
At 400,000BUTs its using 5 gals per hour of diesel,gas or whatever you can get.

Mike M. helped me set it all up,and we changed the nozzle to reduce the burn rate.
Its about 200,000 BTUs now,burns about 2 gals per hour,or so.
I add used motor oil,veggie oil,tranny fluid and old stale gas to the diesel.

Problem is,you have to mix it at 2 gals diesel to 1 gal waste oil or it will not light,unless you preheat the fuel.

Nozzles for this unit are cheap on ebay,i have not clogged up a nozzle yet.
I have a huge fuel filter on it,and i do change it a few times per season.
Its a short season here for heat.

I would never try to run veggie oil in a webasto,webasto pumps and nozzles are not cheap.

$20+ for a nozzle,and the pump is small,and $400.

[Bob Johannesen]

Originally Posted by John 'n Deb

Up north we use Webasco heaters they run on the fuel oil and heat the block, via 12v and fuel oil. That would be a choice.

I agree with John....you might try a coil in the cooking oil tank so the circulating hot water will always heat the cooking oil. If the coil was near the tank output fitting the warmest oil would go out first. You can even put a timer on the Webasto so it will kick in a couple of hours early to save diesel fuel.

.

[1derer]

Aquahot says it doesn’t work on vege. Stevels writes that Webasto doesn’t work on it either.

I was just about to plunk for an electric coolant heater on the site Biobug referenced when I was brought up short by this piece of news to me from somebody ( Leon at WVO Designs) who ought to know and is forthright enough to say as much: “My view is that the temperature of the oil is not really the issue. The temperature of the engine is. The compression increases the temperature of the air plus fuel. An engine at temp runs completely differently than a cold engine. You really need a hot engine to completely burn the heavier fuel (wvo). You may be able to start you engine on WVO but it wont all burn. That unburnt WVO will cause problems wherever it ends up.(stuck to cylinder walls, crank case ect..)” From this admonition I take it that maybe a block heater would hasten the moment when one can switch from diesel to wvo, but not until the engine temperature gauge is at full normal temp.

Biobug, I know you've got a lot of wvo miles under your belt, but do you think you'll have even more than otherwise if you consider operating with Leon's observation in mind. I welcome your thoughts.

As for heating the cabin air and potable water with wvo, I guess I shall be satisfied knowing I can already heat them with wvo thanks to the coolant run heaters and a hot water heater with a built in coolant heat exchanger. But it sure would be nice to be do this while boondocking without running the vehicle motor. I guess the search is on for a small version of Randy’s diesel / anything heater.

[Randy Dupree]

I don't claim to know anything about veggie cars,but i did run one for a few years.
It had a greasecar (i think) conversion on it,complete with heated tank,and heated fuel line form the tank to the engine.
So,i'm guessing that someone thought heated fuel was a good idea.

The PT 40s had a fuel heater on them,to heat diesel fuel.
It used hot water and the Racor fuel filters had heaters as well.

On my boiler for the house,its a military unit,and the military has all kinds of multi fueled heaters,Herman Nelsons etc.

But,on my diesel boiler,if i mix 50% diesel to 50% waste engine oil,or waste veggie oil,it will not fire off on a cold morning.
Once you get it fired,it will re-light all day,but after sitting 8 hours its a no-go.

I use a heat gun to heat the fuel filter and the fuel pump and then the nozzle area to get it to fire and run.
Once warm and fired,it smokes and just does not run well until the fuel in the tank gets warm from the return fuel line.

I think once the burner chamber gets sooted up you loose 20% efficiency.
The carbon soot is a good insulator i guess.
I can't get enough free veggie to mix 50% all winter anyway,so heating the tank is not an issue for me.
I got 5 gals yesterday,and mixed in in with 20 gals farm fuel.

I look at my exhaust stack,when i first fire it up in the morning.
The amount of smoke indicates (to me) whether i have too much waste oil in the fuel,or whether we have a new Pope!

Interesting topic,but i would not run it in any engine i like.
The Suburban i had running on veggie was a true pile of rusty crapola.
a $600 car,and drove it home.
It was not happy in the winter,mild as they were in Florida.
Summers when it was hot,it started and ran fine.
I truely did not care for that truck,i don't think i ever changed the oil in it,and it was a dark gray,hot in the summer.
One day we painter the roof white with cool seal and a wall paper brush in an effort to keep it cooler.

Great fun.