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M450 (Unique Issues) If you have a unique issue with your M450 model coach and it can't be answered in one of the other forums here, then this is where you can list it.....list your M450 Parts here too. NO DISCUSSION OF ANY OF THE M450 LAWSUITS ALLOWED HERE.

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  #1  
Old 10-10-2011
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G_man G_man is offline
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Default Battery Bank Isolator System

Sorry for the long post, I don’t know how to explain this more briefly.
I think this battery bank isolator setup is unique to the M450 but anyone familiar with auto electrics, or low voltage electric systems, battery combiners and isolators may be able to shed some light on what I am finding here.
Blue Bird installed a 200 amp (1200 amp for 30 seconds) Intellitec isolator solenoid to separate the two 4D chassis batteries from the eight house 4D batteries to prevent accidental discharge of the chassis batteries while boondocking. They used an Intellitec Bi-Directional Isolator Relay (-Diesel 2 [24 volt] Model # 00-00839-240) AKA "BIRD" relay, to provide power to a "Big Boy # 00-00507-512 12VDC isolator solenoid. This “BIRD” relay also delays combining the banks until the engine warms a little. It also is supposed to separate the banks if chassis and house draws exceed the alternator output. (Probably not needed with the two massive alternators.)
The “BIRD” relay is designed to close the isolator solenoid by applying nominal voltage to the coil of the isolator to close it and connect the two banks. It then reduces the voltage to the coil to about 4.5 volts which allows the coil to be held in continuously without the normally intermittent duty relay coil overheating.
So far so good, EXCEPT... the "Big Boy" that Blue Bird installed, from what I can determine, is the wrong relay. (Confirmed with Jeff at Intellitec engineering.) They say that the relay required to make this work is an Intellitec Model # W77-90006-120, in fact this number is printed right on replacement BIRD's with the above model number. (This relay is the same size and shape, just without the internal latching mechanism.)
This solenoid recommended by Intellitec is a standard type isolator solenoid; that is it closes with application of voltage to the coil and opens when the voltage is totally removed. The "Big Boy" 00-00507-512 12VDC used by Blue Bird is a LATCHING type relay. It closes with the application of +12VDC and STAYS LATCHED when the voltage is removed. It will NOT unlatch until a momentary -12VDC (reverse voltage) is applied. In other words it never unlatches until voltage is applied in reverse. The design of this “Big Boy“ isolator solenoid is such that it can remain either closed or open without using any power. It does not appear to work in conjunction with a BIRD relay which removes the voltage, not reverses it. Could it be that this has not worked as designed since manufacture?
So when conditions are met to call for separation of the two battery banks, i.e. drawing down of the house batteries below a preset voltage, etc. they are not being separated. I added a small switchbox containing two switches in the "Power Distribution" box next to the batteries. One switch (DPDT) changes from "Factory mode" to "Manual mode". The other is a momentary On/Off/On (DPDT Center Off, Momentary) that either closes or opens the Big Boy solenoid manually by applying either +12 volts or – 12 volts . This box was installed so it can be easily removed should I change the Big Boy relay in the future to the one I believe is actually called for to make this work as designed. For now I can choose to "Combine" (for driving with the alternators charging or connected to shore or generator power with the inverters charging) or "Separate" the two battery banks (as for boondocking) to protect the engine batteries from accidental discharge.
Anyone have any insight or foresee any problems with this setup?
Both types of Intellitec isolators have merits. The Model # W77-90006-120 in conjunction with a BIRD relay can be made to operate fully automatically and the “Big Boy" 00-00507-512 12VDC can be used without wasting battery power holding it closed or open.
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Old 10-10-2011
fxdwg fxdwg is offline
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Rich,

There are 2 issues I see with what you've done.

First is that if you forget to switch to boondocking mode, you could run your batteries down. But this could just as easily (maybe easier) happen with the factory setup. So truly a minor thing.

Second, if there were a problem what would uncombine the 2 banks if you've got them combined? This is also a problem for the oem setup. Just thinking about Randy's bird fire, where having maybe less amperage might help. But that is stretching things a long ways.
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Old 11-27-2011
Doubledoc Doubledoc is offline
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Rich,
I have read your post several times and think I understand it. One question is: If the short delay in charging to the house batteries when the engine is started occurs everytime, does that mean that the isolation solenoid is working properly and not a latching type?

Jim
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Old 11-27-2011
Bruce Bruce is offline
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Rich: That system is used in most Monaco High end coaches. We have it in our Dynasty. One of the better systems IMHO. Supposedly there is no draw when the batteries are not being charged. My Big Boy does get hot and hums. That is normal.If you like I can get you the # of my Big Boy. Let me know via PM.
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Old 11-27-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doubledoc View Post
Rich,
I have read your post several times and think I understand it. One question is: If the short delay in charging to the house batteries when the engine is started occurs everytime, does that mean that the isolation solenoid is working properly and not a latching type?

Jim
Jim,

The way I understand it, you are absolutely correct. If the relay was already latched, the charging would start immediately upon engine/alternator startup.
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Old 01-23-2012
jsonday6294 jsonday6294 is offline
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I am seting with my 07 pluged in to shore power and my house batts. are not charging. Could this isolater be the problem?
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Old 01-23-2012
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Check to see if the two heavy contacts on the Big Boy relay are connected. If they are, the voltage from either one to ground should be the same.
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Old 01-24-2012
Doubledoc Doubledoc is offline
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Do the batteries charge if the engine is running? If there is a delay of a minute or two before the alternator starts to charge then your isolator relay is probably OK.

I would suspect that you may have a problem with the inverters. If they are turned on but system is not charging while plugged into shore power, then you might have a problem with the inverters switching between inverting and charging. I had this problem and had to replace both big Vanner inverters. The problem was intermittent so it was hard to find. My inverters were replaced several years ago and all is fine so far.

Jim
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