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M380 (Unique Issues) If you have a unique issue with your M380 model coach and it can't be answered in one of the other forums here, then this is where you can list it.....list your M380 Parts here too.

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  #111  
Old 05-22-2014
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Hey everyone,

I am in the process of buying the one-owner M380 that Randy has listed right now and will be doing the maiden voyage thing next week. Two years of looking and I finally found one I couldn't walk away from.

My question: according to the owner, this coach blew an engine 2 years ago just a couple months outside of the Cummins warranty. Yes, it was a head gasket problem. He says the engine was replaced with a new one (not rebuilt) at his expense because Cummins left him high and dry. I saw the $23K+ receipt from Cummins! While I love the idea of an almost new 20K mile engine, the owner says there is no warranty in effect on it. This makes me somewhat anxious and also curious if one was offered at the time of replacement. I plan to ask the seller about that. He says the replacement engine runs better and seems to have more power. But I plan to contact Cummins to see if they would offer their own warranty (for a fee) since they replaced the last engine. Enduring another $23K hit would be a nightmare!

After following other issues with this model on the WOG, I am tempted to go with an extended warranty. A quick search came up with a 4 year/48K mile extended warranty for a $4,497 cash price. If I keep the coach for 4 years that's less than $100/month so I am considering it. Generally, I do not opt for ANY extended warranties and prefer to fix things on my own. But the warranty I found looks like it will cover lots of stuff. Unfortunately, it also has a suspect exclusion in the Engine Components section: "Engine head(s) and engine block are covered only if they are damaged by the failure of an internal lubricated part of the engine." As I understand it, the head gasket is NOT lubricated so my biggest incentive to purchase such a warranty would be eliminated.

All advice much appreciated. Thanks!
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  #112  
Old 05-22-2014
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I guess there are no guarantees for any of us. I do have a question that you should be able to answer, Van, after you've seen that coach. I actually made an offer on the coach last year, but he pulled it off the market rather than dicker. At the time he had 11 year-old tires that he said were "good for 200,000" miles - looks like that has been rectified. The question I had then, and have for you now, is what engine is in that coach.

The original ISL from 2002 has a CAPS accumulator pump that feeds fuel to each cylinder. Around 2004 they got away from that and went to a high-pressure common-rail injection system, much better. I tried to get an answer, but the guy was apparently clueless, and I'm still curious.
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  #113  
Old 05-22-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGas View Post
Hey everyone,

I am in the process of buying the one-owner M380 that Randy has listed right now and will be doing the maiden voyage thing next week. Two years of looking and I finally found one I couldn't walk away from.

My question: according to the owner, this coach blew an engine 2 years ago just a couple months outside of the Cummins warranty. Yes, it was a head gasket problem. He says the engine was replaced with a new one (not rebuilt) at his expense because Cummins left him high and dry. I saw the $23K+ receipt from Cummins! While I love the idea of an almost new 20K mile engine, the owner says there is no warranty in effect on it. This makes me somewhat anxious and also curious if one was offered at the time of replacement. I plan to ask the seller about that. He says the replacement engine runs better and seems to have more power. But I plan to contact Cummins to see if they would offer their own warranty (for a fee) since they replaced the last engine. Enduring another $23K hit would be a nightmare!

After following other issues with this model on the WOG, I am tempted to go with an extended warranty. A quick search came up with a 4 year/48K mile extended warranty for a $4,497 cash price. If I keep the coach for 4 years that's less than $100/month so I am considering it. Generally, I do not opt for ANY extended warranties and prefer to fix things on my own. But the warranty I found looks like it will cover lots of stuff. Unfortunately, it also has a suspect exclusion in the Engine Components section: "Engine head(s) and engine block are covered only if they are damaged by the failure of an internal lubricated part of the engine." As I understand it, the head gasket is NOT lubricated so my biggest incentive to purchase such a warranty would be eliminated.

All advice much appreciated. Thanks!
So they have done their home work and stacked the deck their way. If the part is not Lubricated its not covered. Lot of parts not covered and I would bet they are in the reported failures. Look for a better policy if you must have one.
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  #114  
Old 05-22-2014
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Don

Should have taken a picture of that lengthy Cummins receipt when I inspected the coach a few weeks ago. Almost positive it is the newer engine but can't answer that question for sure till next week . I'm flying up this weekend to have my newbie session with the seller and plan to head out on Sunday. The tires are < 1 year Michelin ZX's that still have the nubs and there were several other new items on the coach. Though he had not kept a log book , the seller had receipts for everything he replaced this past year and also agreed to have the annual "spring servicing" done before I pick it up. Will be interested to see what he had done though I plan on going over everything with a fine tooth comb when I get it home anyway. Besides that, there was a problem with one of the boots up front and also a very small exhaust leak I was concerned about; since repaired as part of the servicing according to the seller. The seller did come down to a number I was comfortable with considering the apparent excellent mechanical and cosmetic condition of the coach. It has another 10K miles since you looked at it but I've been looking for quite awhile and this was the nicest M380 I have seen for sale, so far. Time will tell if that evaluation was correct...

Van
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  #115  
Old 05-22-2014
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Reed told me the block was different,and they had to machine the engine mounts to make it fit.
JUst what all that means,i have no idea.
But,i bet the new engines serial number can be checked by Cummins to see which engine it is.
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  #116  
Old 05-22-2014
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I don't have pictures handy, but the passenger side of the engine would look a lot different. The CAPS is a flattened cube just behind the a/c pump, with 6 tubes coming from it up to the cylinders. The common-rail is a large diameter tube running along the length of the engine with short connectors to the cylinders. Won't require a serial number to tell.
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  #117  
Old 05-22-2014
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This is a typical common rail

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  #118  
Old 05-22-2014
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Here's a couple of other pictures. Top is a CAPS system, bottom is a common rail



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Don Bradner
Current: No RV at this time
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee
Prior: 2004 M380 Double Slide
Prior: 1990 WB40 "Blue Thunder"
My location: www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1
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  #119  
Old 05-22-2014
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It would be very interesting to learn if there is any correlation between blown head gaskets and M380s that are programmed to downshift to 4th gear when the Jake is engaged. Until I learned to NEVER engage the Jake without first using the service brakes to bring road speed down to about 55, my engine over-revved EVERY time the Jake engaged.

I was ready to take Cummins to task on this a few days ago, but now I realize the M380 ISL may be running a bit hot at the flywheel end. Combine the extra heat with repeated downhill over-revving and you have the perfect storm for a blown head gasket at cylinder 6.

At this point I don't see the problem as a Cummins defect. The defect is more likely to be Bluebird's combination of compromised cooling and bogus transmission programming. After this engine is repaired I will not use the Jake until it has been re-programmed to shift into 5th gear rather than 4th. Also, I will not assume the temperature is correct at cylinder 6 just because the temp gauge reads OK.
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  #120  
Old 05-22-2014
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I had a number of discussions with Cummins guys in Atlanta about that shifting problem. The old guys in the shop thought it was terrible that it would shift into RPMs approaching 2500, while a district tech guy they got on the phone thought it was OK. It is my intention to have it reprogrammed the next time I find an Allison guy.

I don't mind the 4th gear programming if they can change the shift points. My prior ISL SOB was programmed to select 2nd, and it never shifted too soon.
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Prior: 1990 WB40 "Blue Thunder"
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