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M380 (Unique Issues) If you have a unique issue with your M380 model coach and it can't be answered in one of the other forums here, then this is where you can list it.....list your M380 Parts here too.

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  #31  
Old 05-21-2012
cmillsap
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Driver View Post
Don, I talked with the folks at Parliament and found some interesting tidbits of information:

Listed below are the last 3 digits of the body number, then the model year associated with the body:

100 - 03 106 - 03
101 - 04 107 - 03
102 - 04 108 - 03
103 - 03 109 - 04
104 - 03
105 - 04

After 109 it stays '04 until body 134 which is a 2003.

Thanks for checking the delivery date on my coach, 2/18/03 which is what I was recalling. I also know the interior order date on my bus was 5/20/02.

All of this is very interesting.

Doug
Doc&Linda's coach is listed as a 2004 model with a 103 coach build #

Note to all: More data is needed by all the other owners before any analysis of the data would be meaningful. It may take a couple of weeks to gather enough information.
M380 owners: Please post your data.

Last edited by cmillsap; 05-21-2012 at 09:47 PM.
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  #32  
Old 05-22-2012
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Doc&Linda Doc&Linda is offline
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David, We double checked all our numbers and they are correct as recorded. Thanks for spending time on this.
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  #33  
Old 05-22-2012
cmillsap
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Bump!
Updated Data Spreadsheet
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File Type: doc M380 Data Spread Sheet.doc (158.0 KB, 103 views)
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  #34  
Old 05-22-2012
Dan & Cindy Dan & Cindy is offline
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We received details for ten M380s. Have have five reported head gasket failures. If you sort by the spreadsheet by engine serial numbers it seems to indicate a grouping of problem engines. We need more data from the other 38 WOGers with M380s and others! I wonder if we could collect similar info for SOB with ISL engines from the FMCA or other forums?
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  #35  
Old 05-23-2012
Jim Brookshire Jim Brookshire is offline
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Finally was able to check my engine. Results

Year. 2004
Mileage. 41000
Eng. sn. 46256243
Eng. build date. 9/21/02
Body #. 000154
Mfg. date. May 2003
Blown head gasket. NO
Gasket inspected. YES
Results. No protrusion
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  #36  
Old 05-23-2012
Stephen Stephen is offline
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has anyone tried re torquing the head
to see if it was within specs.
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  #37  
Old 05-23-2012
cmillsap
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Updated Data Spreadsheet:
We need more owners to post their Data.......
Does anyone know if the numbers that make up the engine serial #s represent anything like dates & etc.?
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File Type: doc M380 Data Spread Sheet#2.doc (158.5 KB, 88 views)
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  #38  
Old 05-25-2012
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Updated Data Spreadsheet:
Attached Files
File Type: doc M380 Data Spread Sheet#2.doc (158.5 KB, 94 views)

Last edited by cmillsap; 05-25-2012 at 01:32 PM.
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  #39  
Old 05-25-2012
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Well, the data being compiled so far, especially the engine serial #s appeared to me to have no correlation to the engines that have experienced a blown head gasket. As the serial #s were all over the place, I thought that maybe each number may represent some tracking data or a nomenclature, so to speak. So I called Cummins Customer Support in hopes of finding that information. I spoke to a gentleman who appeared to be very knowledgeable regarding the ISL 400 engine.

After asking him if the engine serial #s had a nomenclature attached to it, his answer was “No, engine serial #s are computer picked at random”. Obviously, that means that our tracking of engine serial #s will be of no help in solving the problem.

In further conversation with him, he stated that he is not aware of an extraordinary amount of reports of this problem with the ISL 400 engine. He did say that Cummins had had a similar problem with their older ISB 5.9 engines, particularly with those in the Bluebird school buses. The problem arose after about 250K miles and when the engine had reportedly been over revved. The blown head gasket appeared at cylinders #5 & #6.

His reasoning for the head gasket to blow at the back of the engine was because of the route of the coolant through the engine. Coolant is directed through the front of the engine first and makes its way through the engine and cools the rear of the engine last.
This causes the temperature of the rear of the engine to be hotter than the front of the engine. He said the temperature differential is a minimum of 10*f in a new engine.

Also, Cummins has found that any solids within the cooling system tended to be deposited over time within the rear portion of the engine and further helped increased the temperature of the engine around cylinders #5 & #6 due to the lesser heat transfer capabilities within that area, again because of the deposits.

As regards his reasoning for the extraordinary failures in our group, he suggested that an over revved engine on a steep down hill descent could easily cause a head gasket failure and it probably would happen at the rear of the engine.

Now, I have only had my M380 for a short while and have only used it one time since driving it home from FL to AZ. On that one short trip back from Las Vegas to Bullhead City, I had to negotiate a 13 mile 6% downgrade. During that descent I had trouble controlling the engine revs below 2200 rpm. At just below the speed point where the Jake was programmed to initially engage, I did see the tach hit 2500 on a momentary basis. This scared me and I reduced my speed to the point when the Jake engaged, the engine revs were consistently below 2200.

So it looks like the data being collected here will not be of much help unless the engine build date shows some correlation in that the engines with gasket failures were built on the same day. We probably should keep compiling the data in hopes that something will show up that is causing the failures. In the meantime, I would suggest that everyone watch those tachometers and do not let your engine over rev. It may be a good idea to have your Jake re-programmed to engage 5th gear initially rather than 4th gear which is factory set.

I am not suggesting that the owners of the engines that have experienced gasket failures allowed their engines to be over revved. At this point, there is no definitive answer to the problem. I am just passing what I have learned along. So please take it for what it’s worth to you.

Chuck
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  #40  
Old 05-25-2012
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Do you have a single gear LED display, or is it dual? They switched back to dual in 2003, but I suspect that may be too late for the 2004 M380. If it is single reading, that does not indicate the gear you are in, just the "gear selected" (Allison-speak). If you are in 6th and start down a hill and turn on the Jake it should "select" 4th (assuming that's how it was programmed, it could be as low as 2nd), but not actually "achieve" (again Allison-speak) 4th until the speeds are low enough to allow it to do so without over-revving.
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