Wanderlodge Owners Group  
BuyByeBlueBird.com
Donate

Go Back   Wanderlodge Owners Group > Mechanic's Corner > Electrical

Electrical Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's electrical system.

Site Search:
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 06-03-2010
NH Bill's Avatar
NH Bill NH Bill is online now
1983 FC 35 "Casa Billisa"
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Petersburg
Posts: 3,830
Default Alternator Upgrade FC

Spent last week in the mountains of NH with the last several days dry camping. Running a rebuilt Leece Neville 130 amp alternator (date 2005) and a ProSine 2k inverter with 100 amp charger. On several occasions I have run the generator while traveling down the road and did not turn off the ProSine charger. I did not think this was a big deal but wondering if it would be a better practice to not have the charger and alternator running up against each other. I would like your input on this issue.

Secondly, on return from this last little trip I parked overnight and when I left to dump in the morning noticed the alternator was not charging. Due to its age and relatively low amperage, I have decided to replace the alternator.

At this point, my plan is to stay with Leece Neville and move up to a 160 amp unit. However, I have been reading in their site and somewhere is a discussion about electromagnetic retarders and they recommend moving up to a 200 amp unit for school bus application when an EM retarder is on board.

I constantly use the EM retarder but don't stop and go like a school bus so I am inclined think I will be good with the 160 amp unit. Although I like the idea of the 200 amp unit, I am concerned about additional horse power drain (I don't think I have any to spare with the 225 CAT). Also, the additional cost of the 200 may be a factor (don't know the difference yet). Not even sure a 200 will fit.

I would like to know if any of you are running anything larger than a 160 amp in your FC.

As always, your comments are appreciated.

Thanks,

NH Bill
__________________
Bill and Lisa Garamella
83 FC-35 SB "Casa Billisa"
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD
St. Petersburg, Florida
Wanderlodge Social: https://mewe.com/profile/5bfc750ae760be22b1797898

Last edited by NH Bill; 06-03-2010 at 06:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-03-2010
MRPutz's Avatar
MRPutz MRPutz is offline
Burnin Up in Az. :-)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mesa
Posts: 4,116
Default

Hey Bill,

I have the same concerns as I'm getting ready to install my retarder. First, find out which model you have;

Model Amps
J300/12 172 - 200
J320/12 224 - 256
J500/12 144 - 164
J520/12 172 - 200
J720/12 172 - 200

The school bus I removed my unit from had a 160a alternator and a dedicated 8D battery for the retarder. I have two 12v starting batteries for the coach and four 6v batteries for the house. I will be using the house batteries for the retarder with my 160a alternator.
__________________
Michael & Tami Putz
78FC35SB & 83FC35SB Wanderlodge - "Putz'n Around"
'90 GL1500 Goldwing | '67 VW Rail | '82 CJ5 Jeep
eMail=Mike.Putz@cox.net | Web=http://mikeputz.com/
Solar = https://www.solarpenny.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=257

FMCA #236459, Good Sam #17270530, Vintage Birds #1509
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-03-2010
gcyeaw's Avatar
gcyeaw gcyeaw is offline
Gardner
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ridgewood
Posts: 8,876
Default

In my opinion, a school bus runs stop and go where a motorhome is slow down and speed up, not much idle time. I doubt you would need to go with a 200 amp unit, you haven't run out of battery yet, so why the added expense, load.

The regulator on the alternator should sense the voltage and adjust the output accordingly. The Prosine should do the same. I suppose it is possable that they may not balance well and keep trading off the load to eachother.
__________________
Gardner Yeaw
86 PT-36 Golden Memories
83FC35 SB $IXTEEN TON$ SOLD
78 FC 33 Happinest (Sold)
Ridgewood, New Jersey
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-03-2010
Turbokitty's Avatar
Turbokitty Turbokitty is offline
Timberlake Products Group
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Clearwater
Posts: 4,928
Default

FWIW... A 160 alternator will produce a theoretical maximum output of 160 amps at 12 volts DC give or take.

Having said that, the horsepower demand on the engine will only be based on the actual demand of the alternator. So... 160 amps X 13.6 volt output is 2176 watts divided by 746 watts per horsepower equates to a staggering... 3.0 horsepower maximum demand.

This doesn't take into consideration frictional and heat losses but is just a representative "food for thought" statement.

Basically a 160 amp alternator will barely keep up with a 2K inverter at full load.

My FC has a 300 amp alternator but the PT only a 160 amp.
__________________

Ryan and Michelle Saari
Timberlake Products Group, Inc.
1985 PT36
1983 FC35RB Left me for Atlanta!
Clearwater, Florida
https://www.timberlakeproductsgroup.com/
https://www.ebay.com/str/timberlakeproductsgroup

Last edited by Turbokitty; 06-03-2010 at 04:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-03-2010
Don Meyer Don Meyer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,182
Default

Hi Bill,

My 86 came with a single 160 amp unit. (some had 2) Back in 05 that unit went out and I went to a local truck stop and got another 160 Delco unit. But as I started adding things over the years, more lights outside, bigger inverter, flat screen TV's and so forth, I found the 160 would not keep up driving at night. Especiall if the boss lady put the coffee pot on. So I started looking around for a BIG alternator. I found a rebuilt 320 amp Leece Nevilles on e bay. It was about 500 bucks. While I certainly didn't need those amps, at least not right now, it wasn't that much more to go for the gusto!. It came with internal regulator and no pully. Bolted right in place of the Delco. I used the pully off the 160 amp unit and now just carry the 160 in the basement as a back up. The new alternator's been great. doesn't matter what we run, day or night, she obviously keeps up. My 2 cents worth would be to go for the biggest unit in your budget. That way it will be there if you ever need it. Especially with the retarder install you're doing.
__________________

Don & Jane
86 PT38 8V92
Pop Pop's Bus
Jeep cherokee in
24' car hauler
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-03-2010
NH Bill's Avatar
NH Bill NH Bill is online now
1983 FC 35 "Casa Billisa"
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Petersburg
Posts: 3,830
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbokitty View Post
FWIW... A 160 alternator will put out a theoretical maximum output of 160 amps at 12 volts DC give or take.

Having said that, the horsepower demand on the engine will only be based on the actual demand of the alternator. So... 160 amps X 13.6 volt output is 2176 watts divided by 746 watts per horsepower equates to a staggering... 3.0 horsepower demand.

This doesn't take into consideration frictional and heat losses but is just a representative "food for thought" statement.

Basically a 160 amp alternator will barely keep up with a 2K inverter at full load.

My FC has a 300 amp alternator but the PT only a 160 amp.
Ryan,

Thanks for your thoughts.

Tell me more about this behemoth of an alternator in your FC.
What brand?
What model #?
Was it a simple bolt on?
How much? $
In retrospect, do you think this is overkill?

NH Bill
__________________
Bill and Lisa Garamella
83 FC-35 SB "Casa Billisa"
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD
St. Petersburg, Florida
Wanderlodge Social: https://mewe.com/profile/5bfc750ae760be22b1797898
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-03-2010
Crit Bliss's Avatar
Crit Bliss Crit Bliss is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cape Cod
Posts: 4,106
Default

Bill, I have have gone against the grain and run a 160 amp Delco (they own LN now) It cost under $200 and has performed perfect for over 5 years, and you can get them over the counter at NAPA.
__________________
Crit Bliss
'80FC33
250T
Cape Cod,ma
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-03-2010
Turbokitty's Avatar
Turbokitty Turbokitty is offline
Timberlake Products Group
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Clearwater
Posts: 4,928
Default

Bill,

The FC came with the LN jumbo alternator.

Story goes (from the guy I bought the FC from, who was a bus dealer BTW) he had just had it installed new while out on the road.

He had just spent about $800.00 bucks for a roadside service because the FC had spit off the belts. It did not have a swing radiator so $800.00 later he was on his way.

Supposedly the next day the Alternator went out and $800.00 later he was on his way again

Well, having spent $1600.00 in 2 short days while on vacation no less, he decided to sell while he still had some semblance of a wallet left

As you know, I got a great deal on the FC from him

You are probably fine with the 165 amp.
As Crit said you can get a Delco 160amp just about anywhere for a reasonable sum.

As a matter a fact, I just put a new 165 Delco on the PT. The dealer/rebuilder sold me 2 of them so I would have one as a spare and only charged me $260.00 for both with only 1 core traded in. I thought it was a great deal! I think he needed some cash too!!

Pictures are of the PT engine bay from inside and at Heller transmission getting the trans serviced with new fluid and filters. They said it was in great shape and only cost $260.00.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	dcp_4209.jpg
Views:	305
Size:	617.5 KB
ID:	5262   Click image for larger version

Name:	dcp_4237.jpg
Views:	232
Size:	401.9 KB
ID:	5263   Click image for larger version

Name:	dcp_4225.jpg
Views:	240
Size:	524.9 KB
ID:	5264  
__________________

Ryan and Michelle Saari
Timberlake Products Group, Inc.
1985 PT36
1983 FC35RB Left me for Atlanta!
Clearwater, Florida
https://www.timberlakeproductsgroup.com/
https://www.ebay.com/str/timberlakeproductsgroup
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-03-2010
Bill Pape's Avatar
Bill Pape Bill Pape is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Commerce
Posts: 11,465
Default

Bill,

We stick with the original design 160 Amp, we also do a lot of boondocking, All alternators are inefficient when compared to an AC battery charger, But the 160 suites us just fine, The amp gage rarely reads more than 100 amps. it will recharge very low the batteries but it may take several hours of driving. check with:
Aaron and Deb Wimbush
Bridgman, MI
86FC35RB
They now own the Dan Darst 86 FC with the bigger alternator, I think 300 amps. If I remember correctly heavier cables were added and changed to carry the increased current, I think Dan's brother Jay is on the Forum he would know the details.
__________________
Bill & Patty
1988 FC, Silver Edition
Commerce, Michigan
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-03-2010
Jim Harvie Jim Harvie is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lancaster
Posts: 726
Default

Crit. The alternators from Napa... are they new, or rebuilt?
FWIW. the information that I got as far as the difference between the Delcos, and Leece Neville, is this.(160 amp)
The L/N, has ball bearings... the Delco, needle bearings?
The L/N, has the brushes inside of a cover, to keep moisture etc, out, Delco is exposed, and the Pigtails corrode?
__________________
Jim Harvie
Lancaster MA.
1982 35 FT. FC, SB
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stove top upgrade... Turbokitty 'Bird Projects & Modifications 13 01-22-2019 10:50 AM
50DN alternator vent upgrade fxdwg PT & WB (Twin Axle Pusher Unique Issues) 18 12-29-2016 12:04 AM
FORUM UPGRADE iamflagman Forum Help 20 05-01-2010 01:01 AM
GPS, radio, TV upgrade... Turbokitty 'Bird Projects & Modifications 3 05-11-2008 02:22 PM
Upgrade Question chaaur Buying a Wanderlodge, a Bluebird or any RV 2 01-16-2008 07:38 PM

Web Search:

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.