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Engine Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's engine.

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  #1  
Old 04-22-2011
joe&julie81 joe&julie81 is offline
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Default Engine Upgrades?

I know most of the classic birds have the 8V92. Are there many, or any, cases of the '89 or older birds getting an upgraded engine, such as to a Series 60 or Cummins 400? This is a dumb question but is the Cat 3208 a 4 stroke engine? How durable is the Cat and how far back do they go? Is that engine still made today? Someone posted an article that mentioned the 8V92 is good for only 250k before needing an overhaul. What about the Cat, how far will it run? Are there any other engines used in Wonderlodges besides these 3 I mentioned?
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  #2  
Old 04-22-2011
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Not knowledgable enough to speak too much on the 8V82 but the 3208 in the Forward Control Wanderlodges is a 4 stroke engine. It has been used extensively for years in everything in the mid range engine class vehicles. Fire trucks, dump trucks, trash vehicles and school busses. I have sold several school busses at auction over the years with mileage ranging 300,000 miles and over, but you have to take into consideration these vehilce were driven the way they were built to be driven, on a daily basis. They had a dedicated shop for routine maintenance and PM was performed almost daily or on a routine schedule. I believe the 87-89 300HP turbo in the 3208 is the best of the 3208 engines. You can find the 3208 in marine applications pumping well over 350HP but they have an unlimted supply of fresh water coolant, for our purposes the 300 is about max without potential problems. I believe Cat stopped production on the 3208 around 1991 but there were millions produced. I would suggest you do a search on the forum, you will find several engine swaps in the FC, anything from a 6v72 to a 8.3 Cummins and others. I don't think anyone has stuck an S60 in a 80's PT yet but there are a couple who could attempt it if they had the time.
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  #3  
Old 04-23-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe&julie81 View Post
I know most of the classic birds have the 8V92. Are there many, or any, cases of the '89 or older birds getting an upgraded engine, such as to a Series 60 or Cummins 400? This is a dumb question but is the Cat 3208 a 4 stroke engine? How durable is the Cat and how far back do they go? Is that engine still made today? Someone posted an article that mentioned the 8V92 is good for only 250k before needing an overhaul. What about the Cat, how far will it run? Are there any other engines used in Wonderlodges besides these 3 I mentioned?
Hi Joe,

As John pointed out you can’t really expect the same durability from an engine used in a motor home as you would from one used in a commercial truck. Trucks can put 300,000 or 400,000 miles on in just a few years.

With that in mind here are a couple of paragraphs from a 1983 Detroit Diesel brochure about the durability of the Silver 92 - 2 cycle engines:

“Life to overhaul is the most commonly accepted measure of engine durability. DDA projections show that the Silver 92 should achieve a 30 to 50% increase in life to overhaul. These projections also indicate a 63% reduction in out-of-frame overhauls. An owner who got 300,000 miles on a 1978 "92" should now get about 400,000 miles or more on a 1982 Silver 92. And since some of the 1983 improvements include new components that will further lengthen cylinder life, average mileage to overhaul should become even higher“.

“We stand behind the Silver 92 with the best written warranty in the industry. It features coverage for 200,000 miles, extended on a pro rata basis out to 30 months. It thus fits the needs of both high-mileage and low-mileage operators. In addition, the optional P3 Power Protection Plan provides extended coverage to 500,000 miles or 60 months, whichever comes first, for ten key components. See your Detroit Diesel Allison distributor or authorized service dealer for details on the Silver 92 warranty and P3“.
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Old 04-23-2011
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I believe Ed and Randy will be replacing a 6V92 in a PT40 with a Cummins 8.3 with the Allison 6 speed that it is currently mated to.
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Old 04-23-2011
joe&julie81 joe&julie81 is offline
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Thanks John for the 1983 info on the 8V92; I feel a bit better about the prospects of owning one of those. The added horsepower would be nice, especially in a bigger bus. So with a 2 stroke engine you are adding oil to the fuel, and you also have crankcase oil to change? How are these engines to keep cool? I assume they are only used in a pusher application?
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Old 04-23-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe&julie81 View Post
So with a 2 stroke engine you are adding oil to the fuel,
No!
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  #7  
Old 04-23-2011
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http://www.yachtsurvey.com/comparing_diesel_types.htm

Check out this link for a explanation and photos.
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  #8  
Old 04-24-2011
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Default Detroit Diesel 2 stroke engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe&julie81 View Post
Thanks John for the 1983 info on the 8V92; I feel a bit better about the prospects of owning one of those. The added horsepower would be nice, especially in a bigger bus. So with a 2 stroke engine you are adding oil to the fuel, and you also have crankcase oil to change? How are these engines to keep cool? I assume they are only used in a pusher application?
Hi Joe,

"So with a 2 stroke engine you are adding oil to the fuel, and you also have crankcase oil to change?"

Kurt answered this in just one word “No”.... but unlike 2 cycle engines used in outboard motors, dirt bikes, weed eaters, etc. Detroit 2 stroke engines don’t mix or inject oil with the fuel. The Detroit Diesel 2 stroke engines have an oil pan and lubricate the engine much like a 4 stroke gas or diesel engine.

2 stroke Detroit Diesels are rumored to use a lot of oil but so far you couldn’t prove it by me (unless of course there‘s something wrong with an engine). I had a Bird with a 6V-92 for 9 years and our current Bird with an 8V-92 for 3 years and I would say that oil use has not been an issue - 1,738 miles since I changed my oil and the oil level is down about a quart from where it started.

"How are these engines to keep cool?"

The only actual cooling problem that I’ve had with either of my two stroke Detroits was when the operating characteristics of the Alarmstat on my 6V-92 changed a little. I noticed that the fan was cycling on at 200 degrees rather than 195 degrees so I replaced the Alarmstat to get it back into it’s normal range. (Note: The Alarmstat is the thermostatic switch that’s used to cycle the hydraulic fan motor on and off for the radiator). The hydraulic fan motor on my 6V-92 did have a leaky shaft seal but that didn’t affect the cooling.

The 2 stroke Detroits are somewhat sensitive to excessive engine temperatures so if you do happen to end up with a 2 stroke Detroit Diesel be sure to read up on the engine coolant hoses and the air compressor coolant hoses and how they can cause catastrophic engine damage if they fail and the engine over heats.

I assume they are only used in a pusher application?

From the Wanderlodge factory - yes.

To me the 3208, 6V-92, 8V-92, Series 60, Cummins, etc. all seem to be pretty good engine choices for the Wanderlodges that they were installed in.
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1984 ½ PT-36 .From 2000 - 2008
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  #9  
Old 04-24-2011
Friday1 Friday1 is offline
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Two stroke engines fire ever stroke as opposed to a four stroke engine firing every other stroke. DD motors generate more heat and have accordingly bigger cooling systems than say a Cummins or CAT of the same horsepower. That doesn't mean they run "hotter", just means the cooling system has more heat to get rid of. Most engine failures are related to cooling issues. A healthy cooling system is most important for any diesel to have a long life. OTR trucks get stressed every day like an in shape athlete. BB's might sit for months and then have to perform at the same level. Like us old guys having to run a marathon after a month of no training. It can be done but it might have a problem so you have to take better care of it-watch the guages closely, look for problems like clogged radiator fins from dried mud or dirt from oil mist caking the radiator fins.

-Rick in Ohio
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  #10  
Old 04-24-2011
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I believe Randy once mentioned that the differentials with the 8V92 models have at times broken when a wheel spins on wet grass or ice etc. If I remember correctly it was felt that the differential in a coach with the 2 stroke would not handle the S60 very well.

You may want to keep that in mind.

Once again this denotes the importance of synthetic oil for transmission and differential in my opinion.
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