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HVAC, Aircconditioners, Aqua Hot, Primus, Webasto, Chassis Heaters, Furnaces and Water Heaters Questions and information about the wide variety of Heating and Air Conditioning as well as Water Heater systems available are discussed here.

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  #21  
Old 10-19-2017
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biobug biobug is offline
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Hmmm, I have a Groco pump from the school bus I stripped but I dis not think it would be compatible due to twice the flow rate.My ssystem has only one pump as the loops are tied together.i guess I should have read more ...
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  #22  
Old 10-19-2017
konehd konehd is offline
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You could always put in a flow restricter and use the grocco pump. A CPVC ball valve would work out fine!

Did you tie together the loops on your system? Are the boilers in series or parallel?

If Scott still has the twin loop system, it would be a good idea to switch to the single loop....


JM.02$

/Joe
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  #23  
Old 10-19-2017
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Originally Posted by ScottyDigital View Post
The ever helpful Primus operators manual only states…. "If Boiler soon boils over, bleed the system"….. Very helpful, it does not however tell me how many or where the bleed valves are.

More information. 92 SP, I am starting to fix the system in the rear bedroom. This one heats up the left side of the coach.

Pump runs, boiler flames up, system heats up the convectors inside the coach, but the anti freeze boils over after a few minutes, I must have air in the system?

I found 1 bleed inside the coach under the couch at the high point, on the left side. I did bleed the air out, there was very little.

Is there a specific air bleed process for the Primus, is there special anti-freeze?

I have bled the system now 3 times, but can not find other air bleeds, just need a little help get this this sorted. Thanks!
The boiler is supposed to be thermostatically controlled—if it boils over, the safegaurd thermostat(s) have failed. Your boilers each have a NC thermostat embedded in the boiler wall. You have to take the black box off and remover the stainless cover to service tbe embedded thermostat. When working properly it will cut power to the boiler above 180*F or so. But the failure mode of the click thermostat/breaker is gradual, erratic—you’ll see degrading breaker performance allowing overtemp condition.

SO. Why does Primus have a procedure for de--airing the plumbing?

WELL. Even though the boiler is the lowest point in the system and therefore virtually immune to accumulation of air, we who Primus have all neglected coolant levels once, or drained the system and inadequately refilled it. Air in the lines defeats the pump, defeats efficient heat transfer in the convectors, and can sooner or later create an instant steam cloud in the boiler—the system operates at atmospheric pressure, yeah, and a volume of hot air and expanding steam at the boiler becomes an equal volume of regurgitating coolant at the overflow tube, followed by a gust of hot air/steam.

Theory prescibes that you allow these overflows and that you replenish the coolant immediately after overflow. The system will purge itself of air provided you keep it full of coolant.

But’. i think it really needs a right-size overflow tank that will siphon back into the system when it cools down. The head tank has been tasked with capturing overflow, in the factory design, but it is too small to catch the volume of coolant forced out by hot air and steam. It is not, functionally, an overflow tank. It does catch overflow and routes it back into the pool of coolant, but it is too small, leading to coolant loss etc.

Dupree products carries a same-size “Leroy” aluminum replacement tank (original poly tanks soften, weaken, stretch, and ultimately leak when boiling coolant if frequent). I would spec a right-sized tank at 3or 4 times the volume of those original or replacement tanks—make it metal, rig like an overflow tank, size it to handle any overflow event , and replace the two smaller tanks with the one big tank.

AND service the embedded thermostat. Other thermostats on the hoses may or may not feed back into the boiler/gas solenoid power circuit. More likely they controll pump or convextors, but you’ll have to investigate or read or roll your own to discover their role. The RV industry wanted extra safegaurds like a switch to kill boiler if a window was opened near primus exhaust—you can see it in some early Primus electrical diagrams. Primus added a circ breaker (red pop-up micro size, iirc) in boiler outflow hose to kill power if coolant got too hot, but the component was revealed to go flaky in service, and it was never upgraded or re-engineered, they just got bypassed. Good opportunity to fix boiler puke there, but note that overflow tube is between the hose circ breaker and boiler—an eruption will run to completion before the circ breaker will trip on temp.

Drain, service, refill note

Drain the lines to the boiler (pull down the petcock to access its lever control on underside, near pump!), disco the hoses and harnesses, undo 4 sheetmetal screws in base, hoist onto workbench and clean out, renew electrical contacts and ground for LP solenoid, and clean burner/empty all rust dust. Replace the solenoid with Dupree Products, if you want my advice. They fail with use and exposure to elements, and create a suite of symptoms like difficult light-off, popping gas sounds, ... Just change it every 2 or 3 years, cheaper than the costs of heater down time in cold weather!

Note that the Primus was made with metric bits—it is a metric size thermo circ breaker. slightly elarge the socket in boiler wall if you choose a 1/2-inch component instead.

The aforementioned drain petcock IS the lowest point, if you open the air bleeds in passenger compartment and refill system thru petcock, you could displace ALL air, ideally. In reality, convectors and hoses have high and low places in the lines — nothing easier than introducing fast turbulent pumped-in fluids to dislodge all bubbles trapped in high points. Randy’s sump pump technique makes it work, so go straight to a sump pump—skip cheaper garden and aquarium pumps, you need high flow rates to effectively purge air. If only for better heating, get that air out and keep head tanks filled to sight glass when cool.

Joe (Konehd, Alligator, ha!) is my go-to guy for help with Primus controls, immersion heaters, and straight-ahead re-thinking of The factory Primus system. He has posted some of his designs here on WOG, you can search them out using the forum’s search function. Read there for everything from Food for thought to advice on hacking the control panels. Don’t miss the immersion heater add-on built entirely with home store plumbing bits, or the two-into-one conversion of original heat loops and controllers. Lots of Primus insights, use Search.

G’luck Scott.
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Last edited by nbedinger; 10-19-2017 at 05:15 PM. Reason: words, names, fwuh
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  #24  
Old 10-19-2017
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nbedinger nbedinger is offline
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Originally Posted by biobug View Post
Hopefully it will be up and running when I take her south in 2 weeks. Thanks for all the info steering me to a proper fix!
Ah, A really good idea! i like to head off the whole holiday commercial by making early winter camp in the snowbird zone. Are you going SOB (south of border)? Hope i can veer over to the desert soon, would be swell to run into you at Q or Quechan/Algodones or Shrimp Beach or ...?
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  #25  
Old 11-03-2017
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biobug biobug is offline
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Not to steer the thread off course but yes, we plan to go to Puerto Penasco again after "Q". As for the Primus I replaced one pump thru Dupree Products and re-wired both burners. The
power wire to the Primus had no power at the relay for the pump. Both burners were running off 1 relay. After peeling electrical tape off prior "fixes" I found power at the beginning but not at the relay. In that line I found 3 connectors and different wires between.
It now has 2 relays (1) for each pump and both are working when told to.I used the sump pump fix for air and turned on both controls and the next morning She was warm and thanking me for fixing her.
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Hood River, Oregon
1992 Wanderlodge 36SP
porschenein59@gorge.net

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  #26  
Old 11-03-2017
ScottyDigital ScottyDigital is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biobug View Post
Not to steer the thread off course but yes, we plan to go to Puerto Penasco again after "Q". As for the Primus I replaced one pump thru Dupree Products and re-wired both burners. The
power wire to the Primus had no power at the relay for the pump. Both burners were running off 1 relay. After peeling electrical tape off prior "fixes" I found power at the beginning but not at the relay. In that line I found 3 connectors and different wires between.
It now has 2 relays (1) for each pump and both are working when told to.I used the sump pump fix for air and turned on both controls and the next morning She was warm and thanking me for fixing her.
I think this is inline with the thread, it all helps hearing others direction on the matter.
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