Wanderlodge Owners Group  
BuyByeBlueBird.com
Donate

Go Back   Wanderlodge Owners Group > Mechanic's Corner > Electrical

Electrical Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's electrical system.

Site Search:
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 06-01-2013
nbedinger's Avatar
nbedinger nbedinger is offline
Goat rails in the sunset
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Freewheelin'
Posts: 1,707
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by konehd View Post

One other thing, it looks like you should use the same chemistry in both start and coach batteries as they charge together...
I am planning to use a charge controller made by the manufacturer of the charger I already use--the add-on controller will let me wire a 2nd bank of batts to my charger, and charge them with their own appropriate charge profile.

The charger I use has an expandable data bus, so I could add more charge controllers and more battery banks, and they would all be charged at custom rates by the one charger.

On its own (without any external charge controllers), the charger knows how to charge my Bank 1 (deep cycle GC-2 house bank). When I then add in one charger controller to charge a 2nd bank, the system now knows know how and can charge Bank 1 (house) and Bank 2 (the starting batteries) with separate charge profiles.

The charge controller isn't a complete 2nd charger, it takes a portion of the charge going to Bank 1 and shapes it/sends it to the 2nd bank. Up to 25A of 12VDC.

Because the charge controller is made by the same manufacturer as my charger, it is supposed to be recognized and integrated into the charge logic, so it works cooperatively and doesn't subvert the battery monitor's calculations about amps in and out of the house bank. I haven't verified that yet, I'm still working out the charge efficiency factor to be used by the house bank monitor

Other things about my charge controller: It will accept a voltage sensor for the bank it charges, but unfortunately not a battery temperature sensor. But since its job is mostly charging the batts when the coach is parked and plugged in, the house bank temp sensor data is good enough for both. It also has its own controls to set the charge profile--you can read all it online.

I know other manufacturers also have charge controllers that work this way. Here's a link to the one I have, sold as a smart battery combiner; it needs an optional solenoid to be a combiner, so I think of it as more a controller:

http://magnumenergy.com/Products/SBC.htm

I bought my Magnum inverter/charger from the place in Flagstaff where you're shopping batteries. They sell a full line of stuff like this. My impression of thgem was really good, both with the tech and with customer service. Good people there, IMHO.

I think you're right about the issue with chemistry. Hope this gives you some ideas hope to work with that. Good luck.

--Ned
__________________
Ned Bedinger
1991 SP36
BB Body No. 93327
Portsmouth, Va
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06-01-2013
konehd konehd is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sedona
Posts: 1,754
Default

Hi Ned,

Thanks for that!

It would seem to work, but I see some issues...

This only works when using shore power. On the 93 I have the start and coach banks are connected together when driving. That could be changed though by disconnecting the solenoid..

This thing will only work if the charger is putting out enough voltage to allow it to. IOW, if the charger is putting out float charge, the combiner wont bulk charge...

That right??


/Joe
__________________
Joe & Pat Garner

'93 WB40 'Alligator'
Sedona, AZ
Fun-Fun-Fun Till they take the BlueBird Away!
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-01-2013
nbedinger's Avatar
nbedinger nbedinger is offline
Goat rails in the sunset
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Freewheelin'
Posts: 1,707
Default

No, Bank 2 will pull the charge it needs from the Bank 1 batts, so the Bank 1 will tell the charger put out current to compensate. Hmmm. I guess that makes it a combiner after all.

See page 11 of the link (under the graph) for a brief explanation

http://magnumenergy.com/Literature/M...SBC)%20web.pdf

I'll say it seems pretty well thought out.

--Ned
__________________
Ned Bedinger
1991 SP36
BB Body No. 93327
Portsmouth, Va
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-02-2013
konehd konehd is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sedona
Posts: 1,754
Default

It would be interesting to see how it works out in real life... ;} Might be a project for an arduino to monitor the volt/current on the 2nd bank.

On the 93, unless you manually switch the banks together, the only time the start bats get charged is when the engine is running and the start and coach banks get tied together with the aux battery solenoid. That was my concern about the chemistry difference.

Other question though, is it really needed? If there is no drain on the start bats you only need to worry about the self discharge current which is pretty small. Unless you leave it for a few months you should be OK. Depending on type of bat and age of course ;}


Thanks, Joe
__________________
Joe & Pat Garner

'93 WB40 'Alligator'
Sedona, AZ
Fun-Fun-Fun Till they take the BlueBird Away!
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-02-2013
nbedinger's Avatar
nbedinger nbedinger is offline
Goat rails in the sunset
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Freewheelin'
Posts: 1,707
Default

Yes, combining the batts banks, when the alternator is charging them, is one of the "combiner" scenarios I don't like--my engine alternator is rated 160A, but of course it loses efficiency when it heats up. If the house bank is low, that is a big load on the alternator.

At least in theory, I should figure out how to put the smart combiner on the batt combiner solenoid, to limit the house bank recharge current to 25A, giving the alternator a break instead of demanding its full output. I would like to be sure first, and then try getting rid of the Aux Battery combiner for charging.

Wouldn't want it wired that way when the charger is running, however. That's when the smart combiner would work best--it isn't fair to my starting batts to hit them with the high volts and current from the charger, needed to charge the deep cycle GC2.

Best solution (short of re-engineering the charge/combiner system) seems to be a quasi-boondocker charge strategy, going down the road running the charger off the generator at least until the house batts are out of the bulk charge rate. I know, the generator would have to work harder to provide more juice to the chargers, but if one (alt or gen) has to suffer the wear I think I'd rather it be the gen--it is built to take it.

This where I understand that the Lifelines begin paying back--their charge acceptance rate is a multiple (!) of their AH rating, not a fraction of it like my GC2 batts. With a big charger, I could bring Lifelines up with the generator in a fraction of the time I'd have to run it to charge the GC2 batts. The fuel savings, and less run-time wear on the generator when charging Lifelines, would pay me back in dollars per day.

A couple of thousand dollars to upgrade my chargers (again), PLUS the Lifeline cost, wouldn't be a bad proposition if it lets me amortize the cost over years, while saving me money every time I use it. They just have to last for years, and I have to use them a lot, and I think it works out.

Compromises like this are probably the best way to manage loads and life of charging system components.

--Ned
__________________
Ned Bedinger
1991 SP36
BB Body No. 93327
Portsmouth, Va
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 03-14-2019
shaaksma's Avatar
shaaksma shaaksma is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 1,518
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Wimberley View Post
CHEAP

Thats me my batteries are from Voltex in Macon Ga $45 each blems or 2nd's last set also from Voltex in Cartersville Ga lasted only 5+ years.
True they are not AGM's just lead acid and are only group 31's batteries are branded as Deca's Voltex does sell a group 31 AGM battery for $260 Will the $$$ battery outlast the cheap one...???


My apologies, I know I'm resurrecting an old thread. I went Voltex website, it sent me to an .AU address. Does anyone know if the place in GA is still selling 2nds or blems? or maybe another online site offering a similar service?
__________________
The Haaksmas
Huntingtown, MD
87FC
FLYING DUTCHMAN
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 03-14-2019
Keirn and Carolyn's Avatar
Keirn and Carolyn Keirn and Carolyn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: New Bern
Posts: 308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaaksma View Post
My apologies, I know I'm resurrecting an old thread. I went Voltex website, it sent me to an .AU address. Does anyone know if the place in GA is still selling 2nds or blems? or maybe another online site offering a similar service?
This week I invested $1872.00 for four AGM Lifeline 150 amp-hour batteries. The price included sales tax and delivery. Bought them from Centex in Texas and they were shipped from the Lifeline East Coast warehouse in the Charlotte area. If you live outside of North Carolina or California you probably wouldn't have to pay sales tax.

They were GPL-30HT and slightly bigger and about 3 inches taller than the series 31's that are standard in a BMC 37. They fit the in the BMC 37 battery compartment very well. It's great to have 600 Amp-hours of batteries and the SW3012 inverter. That's a lot of lights, TV, toaster, and microwave.

Marc Kurth at Centex was easy to deal with and the batteries were here in two days. (It might take a little longer to where you are.)

Marc Kurth
Centex Batteries
13101 State Highway 198 - Suite E
Mabank, TX 75156
Ph (903) 603-6007
marc@centexbatteries.com
http://centexbatteries.com
__________________

Keirn Rush, Carolyn Rush
and Mike the Wanderdog.
New Bern, North Carolina
keirn@keirnrush.com
252-249-2628
95 BMC 37
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 03-14-2019
DW SD DW SD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Encinitas
Posts: 1,354
Default

I'm planning to move to a Tesla lithium ion. Mostly because I'm itching for another project.
Have 2 year, 3 month old lifelines for sale. 3 x 210Ah. They fit the M380 battery boxy well, but I'm sure could fit another battery compartment.
I'm asking about 1/2 price of new. I'm confident there is much more life left than what's been gently used.
Cheers,

Doug
__________________
Doug W.
Encinitas CA
2004 M380
Ex-PT36
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 03-14-2019
shaaksma's Avatar
shaaksma shaaksma is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: DMV
Posts: 1,518
Default

$1,800??!? Ouch. Guess there's a reason I've been putting it off.


I watch the Tesla videos over and over. I'd like to do the same, but my bus has been unplugged maybe 40 days in the last four years. Don't know what the ROI is at 10 days a year.


I'll keep your batteries in mind, but based on my infrequent usage, I think the ROI wont be there with those either.
__________________
The Haaksmas
Huntingtown, MD
87FC
FLYING DUTCHMAN
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 03-15-2019
bwinter1946's Avatar
bwinter1946 bwinter1946 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Madera
Posts: 3,978
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keirn and Carolyn View Post
[SIZE=2]
[SIZE=2]They were GPL-30HT and slightly bigger and about 3 inches taller than the series 31's that are standard in a BMC 37. They fit the in the BMC 37 battery compartment very well.
Always interesting to me about the house batteries in BMC as I have seen a number of configurations. My BMC has three 4D house batteries. I have no idea if that is original or not.
__________________
Brad Winter
Madera, California
1997, 37' BMC
1999, Jeep Cherokee, Toad
1970, VW Baja Bug, Alternate Toad
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trans-Specialists, Battery Vendor (Lifeline) davidmbrady Vendors 36 07-31-2012 11:22 AM
Lifeline Battery Increase - August 1st truk4u Electrical 0 07-26-2012 07:27 PM
6 Lifeline 4D Batteries- For Sale richard palmer Parts and Other Items For Sale 0 05-01-2012 01:37 PM
Lifeline GPL-4DA RV / Recreational Vehicle Battery From Lifeline Battery Corporation Bumpersbird Parts and Other Items For Sale 4 11-16-2009 04:21 AM
Anyone Use 6 Volt Batteries for their house batteries? JackandLiz Electrical 6 02-14-2008 11:33 PM

Web Search:

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.