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M380 (Unique Issues) If you have a unique issue with your M380 model coach and it can't be answered in one of the other forums here, then this is where you can list it.....list your M380 Parts here too.

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  #1  
Old 12-08-2016
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Default Help! - Fixed M380 Air Leaks in 1L Bay BUT 12V Aux Air Pumptrol Acting Strange

Decreasing slide air bleed-down rate using the 12V Aux Air Pump finally drove me to find & fix some leaks. Time from that pump stop to start had decreased to about 30 minutes. Soapy water revealed several leaking fittings coming off small air tank and BOTH air pumps in 1L Bay (under drivers' side window). Replaced those fittings with furl-nut style & installed two one-way check valves coming off the 12V pump & tank. Did not (yet) replace the upper one-way check valve above the small tank. Lastly, installed an On-Off switch inline for the small 12V Aux Air Pump. Obvious leaks found and eliminated as far as I can tell. Have not yet checked the door foot-well slide, though based on DonB’s write-up that was going to be next. HOWEVER, tested results & now I have a new problem!

So what's the problem? - With the big 120V Aux Air Pump switch OFF and no pressure in the system, the small 12V Aux Air Pump is turned ON. Pressure builds normally and the slide seals inflate. So far all is well with no notable leaks in bay 1L. At pump cut off, the 12V Aux Air Pump shuts down as it should THEN a MAJOR leak immediately starts at the back of the 12V Air Pump SquareD Pumptrol connection. Air pressure then rapidly bleeds down for about 30 seconds and the 12V Aux Air Pump comes on again. The Pumptrol “leak” stops when the 12V Aux Pump comes ON and air system pressure increases to pump cutoff - at which point the 30 second “leak” cycle repeats.

Removed cover of Pumptrol and found “leak” not a leak at all. Control appears to be designed to cause the pressure drawdown by depressing a pin that intentionally releases air at pump connection WHEN shutoff pressure is reached! That's exactly opposite what I'd expected. Why would this switch intentionally release pressure until the pump comes ON again? Am having a hard time figuring out what's changed other than the leaking connections being “patched”. When I replaced the two one-way check valves I followed flow symbology ( ---O>--- ) and aligned the new valves same as the “old” ones, though I did use 250 PSI rated valves rather than 2,000 PSI valves. Neither pump can reach 250 PSI, let alone 2,000 PSI so that should've been fine.

Open to suggestions - help!

PS - Found these WOG links and the Air System diagrams mentioned in them to be educational. But they're mostly suspension related & don't really address this puzzling Pumptrol action:

http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.co...ad.php?t=17987
http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.co...ead.php?t=6482
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  #2  
Old 12-08-2016
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WAG here - Designed for a no load compressor start ?
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Old 12-08-2016
Scott White Scott White is offline
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Van

I had the some of the same problems, there should be a check valve at the tank in the line coming from the 12 V comp. to the tank so the controller can bleed of the higher pressure and when the comp. starts it is not under a load.
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Old 12-08-2016
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Default No load start for compressor?

Yes, the Square D pressure switch for the 12V DC compressor obviously has a built-in unloader valve and it's definately unloading. Problem is it's unloading the pressure sensing side of the switch, which triggers the hi-low cycling of the air pump. Just need to figure out why. The good news is that the 12V DC pump is building slide seal pressure much faster. Sealing all the leaks and those new check valves are likely the reason.

Looking at a diagram of system (pic below), I noticed the upper right paragraph which says about the small air compressor: "I set it to come on at 25 and off at 50 pounds pressure. It was set at 100...". I'll check that first thing today using the regulator gauges.

Stay tuned...

Why does fixing one thing on the bus ALWAYS lead to another issue?

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Last edited by NoGas; 12-08-2016 at 12:13 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 12-08-2016
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What KC and Scott said above.

I didn't see a check valve between the 12VDC compressor and the air tank on your diagram. I would expect to see one there even if it is not on the diagram.

Opening the unloader valve is intended release the pressure in the line between the air compressor and the check valve. That way when the air compressor starts next time it will start without a load on it.

The unloader line should only release air for a second or two and only release air from the line between the air compressor and the check valve.

The unloader connection must be between the air compressor and the check valve.

If the check valve leaks back through the valve, the unloader valve will drain all the air.

As a test:
You should be able to temporarily disconnect the line between the air compressor and the check valve and the aux system should still hold pressure.

Did you change the location of any of the check valves?
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Old 12-08-2016
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Interesting, I'll be waiting to see how you fix this..I run my AUX pump when parked to keep my slide seal inflated, it runs 15 minutes mins about every 10hrs. My 12v pump needs a rebuild kit.
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  #7  
Old 12-09-2016
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Thanks Tim. Suggestions helped visualize how it should be working. Diagram is from WOG post several years ago. Lance, another WOG thread mentioned Grainger has the pump rebuild kits but they are expensive.

Troubleshot today. Discovered that the NEW check valve between 12V pump and small air tank was leaking. That's why when the pump reached high limit, pressure bled from the small tank the wrong way back through the check valve, then up to the Pumptrol where it "leaked" out the open unloader port. Re-installed the old check valve and it leaked too. So removed and cleaned then blew it out, sprayed with silicone, reinstalled and it now seals & works ok. Checked bleed down time and slightly improved but still only at 40 min . After rechecking all previously replaced 1L Bay fittings & finding no leaks (bubbles) turned attention to footwell slide at front door. Air actuators for this are under the lower wiring chase next to the co-pilot seat. Each In/Out foot well slide control has two lines attached, a supply & the actuator feed line. Both supply line fittings were leaking so replaced all 4 with new furl/nut fittings. (By the way NAPA discount card really came in handy on this project - WAY cheaper than HD for all these new non-Shark Bite fittings!). Tested before reinstalling chase cover and no leaks. Sadly, that only raised the bleed down time to 55 min before the 12V air pump restarted . So what else can be leaking? On to the slide regulator box and slide seals themselves - which other than the 3rd one-way check valve to the high pressure parts of the air system, are the only other parts of the 12V air system.

With both slides out and seals inflated, when inside looking along forward slide left wall I noticed a small amount of daylight coming into the coach near the upper left corner. It was afternoon and the sunshine was noticeable through that pin hole opening. It should've been plugged by the inflated seal . Got the ladder out to inspect outside and found what looks like a tear near the forward slide boot corner. No time today to pull slide into the maintenance service position (http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.co...ead.php?t=5084 Post #7 & rest of that thread) to inspect more thoroughly. Willing to bet Super Glue repair is next, maybe this weekend...

Sometimes, when addressing all the bus issues I feel like Lucy & Ethel in their famous Candy Factory skit - they just keep coming! https://youtu.be/NkQ58I53mjk
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Last edited by NoGas; 12-09-2016 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 12-09-2016
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If you have a hole in your seal it would normally leak much faster than you are experiencing. It is also common/normal to have some air gap at the top with the slide out unless you really jack up the seal pressure. Doc told me that the solution was, when installing a new seal, to double up on the foam tape in the corners, to make them tighter against the slide. I don't get that gap when the slide is in.

For me, the biggest leak sources were the large nipples going into the tank. All of them leaked on mine. there are, I think, at least 6 of them. I found my leak problems mostly by closing off lines - when all were completely blocked it still leaked.

I don't like the 12v pump much. I installed a switch on the dash for it, but usually leave it off. I have my 110v pump plugged into a digital timer that runs once every 24 hours for 15 minutes. It takes about 6 minutes to fill the entire system to above 100 psi. My aux line bleeds down to 0 in about 6 hours, but the slide system is above 40 psi when the pump comes on the next day. Of course mine is the only coach with a gauge on the aux system Brake gauges, which we all have, show that system holding for many days.
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Old 12-09-2016
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Don, I used your idea and installed a ball valve to replace the leak prone water drain t-valve, this took care of one of my air leaks..
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Old 12-10-2016
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Default Tracking down air gremlins is tedious work!

I like using the 12V DC pump since it's quieter, runs for a much shorter time to supply a far lower required pressure for that part of the system and there's no reason to air up the whole air system when parked or boondocking. The PO never used it (it was found unplugged) and it seems he too relied solely on the big 120V AC pump when parked - so I've got a new DC pump. However, getting it to work as it should and chasing down the air leak gremlins is a pain!...

All but one of the fittings coming off the small air tank was leaking. The nipples weren't but each "shark-bite" part on the fittings that grabs the plastic tubing "bubbled" with soapy water applied; some just a little and some allot. Tested anywhere BB used those push-pull fittings and about 1/2 were leaking. Replaced each with old fashioned furl/nut style fittings and used teflon tape rather than the thread goop BB used. Now they don't leak period and using our WOG NAPA AITA discount card they were cheap!

Both supply fittings for the door footwell slide were also leaking and two of the 3 check valves weren't completely "checking" causing the Pumptrol mystery described above. Suspect the 3rd check valve above the small air tank is also leaking. Those fittings weren't leaking so still need to remove & check that valve. If it is then it's bleedown into the non-pressurized 120V AC side could be causing my reduced bleed-down time problem. So far a good clean and silicone spray of the other two original lower check-valves seems to have helped. I'm up to 1 hour between 12V DC pump runs with run-time of only 20-30 sec each time so like I said, almost there . Agree with Don about slide seal leak not causing this - could never achieve an hour between DC pump runs if one existed.

Separate issue - My 120V AC pump works fine but I've got what I suspect to be an air manifold "leak" on the high pressure side in back of the front left wheel. It goes away or seals when the is engine started. That one was described by Dan B in a prior WOG post. Will address it when I'm at a place where I can safely get under coach to diagnose. No rest for the wicked!!
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