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Generators In this forum we will try to answer any of your questions about the different model generators that can be found on Blue Bird coach's.

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  #21  
Old 06-11-2011
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dslcat dslcat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warbucks13477 View Post
If I knew what the ice cube was I could tell you what the problem is???

Actually I am about to go to the macy fergusen dealer to pick up a new solenoid. That is what is wrong with my perkins.

Actually the control box controls everything (I guess that makes sense doesnt it>) except the control coming from the S terminal of the solenoid what the starter starts turning over, and that signal pulls in the fuel solenoid to allow fuel into the injector pump to start the engine. At that point considering that the low oil sensor puts out the correct signal to the control box and the high temp senser does the same thing (the two sensers are connected in parallel), the engine starts and at that point if the generator puts out 240VAC the control box senses it and keeps running.
Tom,
You reference the low oil/high temp sensor signal to the control box. Do you or another WOG member know how to test this parallel signal in the control box. I want to rule-in or out these sensors as the cause of the fuel solonoid pull back and engin shutdown just prior to taking my finger off the start toggel.
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Mike & Adrienne Trout
Pasadena, MD
82 FCSB 35'
FMCA 64467s
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  #22  
Old 06-11-2011
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Originally Posted by john wheeler View Post
The best i could find was that now i was only getting 3 volts ac to the "ice cube" or coil relay. The bird currently resides at Valley Power Systems in Fresno, not looking forward to the bill. I will post results when i get it back. Thank you to every one that tried to help me
John,
I am anxiously awaiting the outcome of your service visit. My Kohler/Yanmar is behaving so simularly to yours that your diagnosis might be the magic bullet for me. Hope it isn't too painful on your wallet!! Thanks and good luck!
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82 FCSB 35'
FMCA 64467s
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  #23  
Old 06-12-2011
markusfmeyer markusfmeyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dslcat View Post
Tom,
You reference the low oil/high temp sensor signal to the control box. Do you or another WOG member know how to test this parallel signal in the control box. I want to rule-in or out these sensors as the cause of the fuel solonoid pull back and engin shutdown just prior to taking my finger off the start toggel.
Ralph Fullenwider gave me these tips/instructions when I had issues last year. Note that all of the below test checked out ok, and my problem ended up being a bad ground on the charging relay, so the battery wasn't staying charged (no separate alternator for the Yanmar). Also note that unfortunately I am in the process of replacing the Kohler after other problems crept up (bad rotor) with a brand new unit.

Here are Ralph's instructions:

Open the gen compartment and start from the control box and watch the fuel solenoid as to how it pulls in, if at all. If not then as your starting reach over and manually pull it in and see if it stays or not.

In my case it did not stay, so there are a few things that will cause this problem:

1. weak fuel solenoid
2. weal or flaky high water temp sensor
3. Low oil pressure sensor going bad
4. cr2 relay contacts or wiring corroded

First, locate the high water temp sensor, located on top or near the top, front or rear of the valve cover area. Be sure it is not the temp gauge sender. Disconnect the wire from the sensor and place it where it can not ground out thus shut down the gen set and place a volt meter set to ohms, red lead to the sensor contact and black lead to ground. Watch to see if the sensor causes the meter to change from open to closed (I really suspect this to be the problem). If gen set does not shut down and you get any reading on the meter then the high water temp sensor is bad. Then go to the low oil pressure sensor next and do the same thing. The low oil pressure switch should also run to the water high temp sensor.

If the sensor check out ok, next we need to connect a volt meter set to DC volts black to ground and red to the fuel solenoid coil and watch the volts dc and note the voltage when the solenoid drop out and shuts down.

There should be connectors coming out of the control box, disconnect the plugs clean then and reconnect. But do these one thing at a time. Also make sure all wires are tight in the control box, and that all fuses are ok. Also make sure your oil and coolant levels are correct, as this will cause the sensors to trip (correctly).
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Phoenixville, PA
1986 PT40 6V92
VB 1570
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  #24  
Old 06-12-2011
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Hi Markus,
Thanks for all the great advice. Sounds like the high temp and low oil sensors are designed to provide full resistance to ground when they are operating correctly and no fault conditions exist. So, if I disconect the wires from the sensor terminals and wrap the terminals with electrical tape the engin should stay running if the sensors are the problem. Next, testing the sensors with an ohm meter, while the wires are off and taped, I would want to see a high ohm reading namely lack of continuity to ground through the sensor. Is my understanding correct? At times it isn't with electrical matters.
P.S I have tried pulling the wires and taping them and the yanmar starts but quickly shuts down. I've looked for loose wires in the control box but not terminal corrosion.
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82 FCSB 35'
FMCA 64467s
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  #25  
Old 06-13-2011
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GreenBird GreenBird is offline
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Not saying this is your problem but - I've seen a lot of relays that were mechanically functional but their contacts were fried and didn't pass electricity or had high resistance. You could energize the coil and put an ohmmeter across the contacts - reading should be really low - couple ohms max - check with wires removed.

My 2 cents - hope everything comes out OK.
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Trufant, MI
1986 PT40
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  #26  
Old 06-14-2011
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All the problems we have had with our generator have been electrical in nature. Wire harness, cannon plugs/sockets, slip rings, broken brush holders (twice), etc. No mechanical problems in last 10 years KOW. Hope you have an easy fix
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Bill & Rita Brinner in Roanoke, VA
"IRON HOUSE"
1987 FC-35SB ('87 factory demo)
Cat 3208ATAAC-300
12.5kw Kohler/Yanmar (w/slide)
"Magic carpet made of steel"
Steve Goodman 1970

"You never fail until you stop trying".
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  #27  
Old 08-03-2011
john wheeler john wheeler is offline
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Sorry for the huge delay in updates, it has been a very long year i have had several family members in the hospital not all at once but all out of state. They all seem to be good now though.

Short version on the gen set is there was wire on two of loops on the stator that melted together causing the short. Stator was rewired injectors being rebuilt and stater ring gear being replaced. While the generator is out i insulated the compartment , serviced the radiator and installed a new fan motor. It should go back in next week for the generator to be reinstalled. As for the amount of time it was misdiagnosed initially but the shop waved all the labor charge up to the right diagnose including several hours spent fixing stuff that was wrong. When its all done i will give a price break down on the forum.
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Hanford,CA
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  #28  
Old 08-03-2011
Dctrcarter Dctrcarter is offline
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Default Yanmar/Kohler

On the Gen not putting electric, check he currentbreakers which should be on the other side of the gen. box on mine. On the fuel solinoid, look at voltage rugulator to see if everything is tight there. Do'es the gen start from the inside?
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  #29  
Old 08-03-2011
john wheeler john wheeler is offline
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Richard
the short in the stator was causing the problems. Although i have not seen it run yet I'm sure the short was causing regulator to burn up as well as fuses.
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John wheeler 86 pt38
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  #30  
Old 08-15-2011
john wheeler john wheeler is offline
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Got the bus home with a rebuilt generator runs great. Have one problem i think the fan used to push air now it pulls. Cant remember for sure which way is right and does it matter, ran for couple hours this way stayed at 180 whole time.
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