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Engine Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's engine.

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  #111  
Old 05-14-2017
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Kev Kev is offline
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Hi Van. Thanks for the info. I hadn't seen those posts of yours nor the video until today. Very informative write up.

Yes, I can confirm that the problem with the exhaust smell seems to have started when we went from a straight pipe to a muffler. We didn't use muffler cement nor any other sealant when the muffler was installed. It was only after I had returned to Florida several months later that I tried the manifold gasket sealant. Actually, before the manifold sealant I did try some muffler cement around the muffler clamps and the flex pipe clamps. The cement didn't stop the leak so that's when I tried the manifold sealant. Maybe I wasn't using the correct muffler cement and that's why it still leaked around the muffler connections?

Before I let Williams start to tear into my engine I'm going to ask them to hook up their smoke machine to the exhaust so that we can hopefully see exactly where the leaks are occurring. Although the guys at Volvo in El Paso were able to use their smoke machine to show that there are exhaust leaks, they didn't do a very good job of pinpointing the manifold leak. Aside from the leaks that we saw at the muffler connections, it was impossible to see the manifold leak directly so they were having to do their best with an inspection mirror. I don't imagine it's going to be any easier for Williams to pinpoint the leak, however, I think it's better to be certain of what we're looking at because I don't want to remove the exhaust manifold if I don't have to.

Before we left El Paso I adjusted and torqued the muffler clamps. I didn't have to mess with the band clamps on the flex since they are new and not leaking. I also removed the walls inside the cabinets above the bed (north/south bed) and, using an inspection camera to look amongst the factory expandable insulation, was able to find a couple of soot traces around the exhaust chase. I carefully filled the cracks and crevices with expandable foam. I don't remember if I mentioned this in a previous post, but I determined that the exhaust smell is most prevalent in the cabinets above the bed which is what led me to finding the traces of soot behind the walls of the cabinets.

Since leaving El Paso the exhaust smell in the coach has diminished. We still stop every 30 miles or so to air out the bedroom, but the smell isn't nearly as bad as it was heading into El Paso.

Something else I noticed during yesterday's and today's drive...coming down a long grade with the jake on high, my boost gauge reads about 10. I also noticed that using the jake on a long grade significantly increases the amount of exhaust entering the coach similar to the exhaust smell that is produced during a long climb.

That's about all I can say about the situation at the moment. I'm hoping that by this time tomorrow I'll have more answers than questions.
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Last edited by Kev; 05-14-2017 at 11:37 PM.
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  #112  
Old 05-14-2017
al perna al perna is offline
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Kev ,

Today we drove 450 miles , no smell or smoke .

water temp 188/191
Pyro temp 450/650
speed 63 mph

Denver to Omaha , all down hill I still think this is related to Pyro , but I like how determined you are on this , so I'm following you closely . Keep at it , cause I'm a flatlander for 3 more months , then it's back west
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  #113  
Old 05-15-2017
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NoGas NoGas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev View Post
Hi Van. Thanks for the info... We didn't use muffler cement nor any other sealant when the muffler was installed.... Maybe I wasn't using the correct muffler cement and that's why it still leaked around the muffler connections?... I don't want to remove the exhaust manifold if I don't have to... finding the traces of soot behind the walls of the cabinets. Since leaving El Paso the exhaust smell in the coach has diminished...
A couple points: BB had a AD out to fix the exhaust on the M380. Linked to it somewhere in my write-up. The AD called for that muffler cement I used in my project and it specified spreading the cement all over both male & female ends of the flex bellows before reinstalling the Torc band clamps. Not surprisingly, that's where my worst leak previously occurred. Adding cement to the OUTSIDE of the joints after-the-fact will do very little to help. I added the cement as BB specified to ALL of the connections (think applying PVC cement - male and female of each fitting) in my exhaust and also under all of the Torc band clamps. That's why the darn thing will NEVER come apart without a torch. However, since then and during almost 3 years of going up and down on some of the biggest hills the west has to offer, I've NEVER even once smelled ANY exhaust (and I have a VERY sensitive nose). The Volcano Tape wrap has also worked perfectly and kept temps in the engine bay as well as rear closet much much cooler underway, if not ambient.

To eliminate your smell problems I think you should remove then reinstall your exhaust using the correct muffler cement procedure spelled out in the AD. I got my cement via Amazon and purchased several tubes for my install. It wasn't expensive. Alternatively, you could have Williams weld each exhaust joint. Even a little exhaust leak is going to SMELL and spray foaming the closet is a band-aid not a fix.

As I said, your exhaust manifold may also have issues and I'm certainly no expert on that since I connected my straight pipe mod to the pipe coming off the turbo. Know it's short notice with Williams. Sorry, have been busy with the battery install phase on the last part of my electro-bird mod. Know you've seen that but it as well as Ron R's "Going All Electric" threads make interesting reading should you be sitting around the shop today killing time ...

Lastly, don't forget to use and rely on the WOG search function. There is a HUGE amount of info there just for the asking!

Here's a token photo showing the 120V rewire going on in my inverter bypass box
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  #114  
Old 05-15-2017
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I'm typing this on my phone so I'll have to keep it brief.

Got the coach into the Williams shop this morning and connected the smoke machine to the exhaust tip. We were able to clearly see a substantial leak at one of the manifold slip joints. The muffler connections were also still leaking so they'll fix that too.

The plan is for them to replace the exhaust manifold.

Unfortunately they're not a shop that will let me hang out with the tech while he works. Can't say that I blame him. I'll pop in from time to time and try to get some pics.

They plan to do this job accessing from the rear and not via the bedroom access and not removing the cac/radiator.

They quoted 8 hours to do the job. I'll be really surprised if it's no less than 15.
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  #115  
Old 05-17-2017
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Update on repairs.

The exhaust manifold was removed and the new one ready to install in just over 2 hours. Yep, you read that right...2 hours.

The mechanic accessed everything from the rear of the coach. He was either squeezing himself between the cooling fan and the engine or climbing over the top.

It was determined that the exhaust manifold gasket was blown at #2 cylinder and that one of the manifold slip joints was leaking.

The old manifold gasket that was removed was an aftermarket product, which tells us that this exhaust manifold had been removed at least once before. That explains why the manifold came off so easily and with no broken bolts.

All of the exhaust piping was in excellent condition.

Everything went back together and the smoke test revealed no leaks at the engine side. However, the muffler connections (top and bottom) still leak.

Williams did not have the proper muffler cement to seal the muffler leaks so instead of waiting around for them to order it we signed off on their work and hit the road.

We did have some exhaust smell in the bedroom during the 105 mile drive from Tucson to Phoenix this morning which I attribute to the leaks at the muffler connections. The drive was mostly level with an overall decrease in elevation meaning it didn't make for ideal test conditions. With that said, the exhaust smell was only apparent in the bedroom and not overwhelming as before.

I've ordered the correct muffler cement and it will arrive tomorrow.

I have a Saturday morning appointment with WW Williams in Phoenix to let them fix the muffler leaks. Knowing what a pain it is to try and refit a muffler into the exhaust pipe after it has been installed and tightened once before, I figured it's worth paying someone else to do it.

My hope is that the exhaust smell will be gone once the muffler leaks are fixed.

I'll give an update once we've sealed the muffler connections.
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  #116  
Old 05-17-2017
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Randy Dupree Randy Dupree is offline
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way to go Kev!
I would never have believed it could be done that fast!
But,then again,i have never been a small man!
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  #117  
Old 05-18-2017
Flyfisher Flyfisher is offline
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Kevin what is the "correct muffler cement"? I paged back through this thread, but must have missed it. I inspected my exhaust system yesterday, intend to replace the muffler this fall and might need some.

Another WW Williams success story, their bus shop did right by me in Atlanta last year replacing my throttle pedal assembly in short order.
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  #118  
Old 05-18-2017
rshrimp rshrimp is offline
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I have had success with this stuff. Black tar looking stuff. I sealed a warped exhaust manifold on a V-8. It kept blowing gaskets so I dumped the gasket and used this. No more leaks.

Walker Acoustiseal

http://www.coolcatcorp.com/product/Sealer.html
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  #119  
Old 05-18-2017
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Default Muffler Cement for Exhaust Work

BB Service Bulletin S03HD for M380 dated Dec 19, 2003 specified Yale Sealant MCS. I used this on my straight pipe mod a couple years ago. No leaks or smell since. See post #86 & a video link HERE. Stuff has been made specifically for muffler work since 1953. It is at least as strong as a weld. Only drawback is it's PERMANENT so you'll need an air chisel to get a joint made with the stuff apart. Available on Amazon in "Shop Size" HERE and smaller sizes also available.
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  #120  
Old 05-18-2017
Rick Davis Rick Davis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Dupree View Post
way to go Kev!
I would never have believed it could be done that fast!
But,then again,i have never been a small man!
Randy attached is a pic I took of a mechanic I had at the barn one time. Yep, that's him laying on top of the back of the 6V, who crawled in from curb side even with the Primus in the way!
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