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M380 (Unique Issues) If you have a unique issue with your M380 model coach and it can't be answered in one of the other forums here, then this is where you can list it.....list your M380 Parts here too.

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  #121  
Old 08-23-2019
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DonB DonB is offline
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Most of the M380s had 2002 engines, I think. They bought a large batch. Too bad they didn't have a 2004 engine - they pulled the ISL from production in 2003 and reintroduced with a common rail injection.
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Don Bradner
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2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee
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  #122  
Old 08-23-2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonB View Post
I was wrong about it telling you to turn the key off and leaving it off for 5 seconds before restarting. What 434 was telling you was that:


the key was turned off, then back on, too fast for the computer to properly shutdown. Don't do that, always wait at least 5 seconds before restarting! (my wording, obviously).


So it comes back to ignition key wiring, with a momentary loss of connection that the computer did not appreciate, so it shut you down.


What we know is that your ignition wiring is screwed up, probably just another in the long list of things your dealer did badly before delivery, such that a) you can't start from the rear, and b) you can start up front with the hood up, and c) (probably) wherever they cut the wires to the rear ignition and hood inhibit is a poor connection.
The 434 code is very specific that the engine ECM is losing power on the "unswitched" power line. Cummins tech support emphasized to me that I should be looking at the power lines that do not go through the ignition switch. I've found those wires and will trace them carefully tomorrow. BB may have cheated and put several through a common fuse. I'll know better when I trace them. It could be as simple as a bad CB/fuse connection or a pin that has poor connection. Some of those pins probably haven't been cleaned since the engine was built and oxide may be built up.

I agree that the dealer probably screwed up the interlock and ignition. I know they screwed around with that when they couldn't get the engine started. George Morris told them what the problem was, but by then they had hacked up the interlock and rear ignition system, so I'll check that out. I'm pretty sure they caused the oddity I'm seeing with the rear engine start/interlock, but at this point, I don't think I can blame them for the 434 error code. I'll know more tomorrow.

I can blame them for stealing my 3KW MSW inverter and the inverter bypass system, but that's another issue
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2007 Double Slide M380 "Bertie"
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  #123  
Old 08-23-2019
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Found out earlier this week that if you enter your Engine Serial Number (ESN) in Cummins QuickServe, it will kick back your data plate (attached, ESN partially obscured). Info includes engine Build Date (mine is 17 FEB 2003). Not that it matters now, but Warranty Start Date (15 DEC 2005) was almost 3 years after build so they did account for the engines sitting around for a substantial time before hitting the road.

Cummins Engine Data Plate - My M380 (edited).pdf
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  #124  
Old 08-24-2019
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Brief update:
1) There was a missing fuse from Alternator Load,
2) There was a blown fuse for Eng Compartment Lights,
3) The 1009 YEL wire was cut leading to the Starter solenoid and a hacked wire connected to one cut end and run to the rear engine control box. This was the "fix" the dealer installed when they couldn't understand the interlocks and rear start controls.
4) They left the other end bare so it would short out when power was applied.
5) When they reinstalled the fuse panel, they trapped another wire 1102A behind the panel and smashed it/cut it, possibly shorting it to ground as the fuse panel mount screws were tightened.

Most of the above issues were dealt with. On the good news side, All the 12v power connections to the ECU were tested and confirmed good. I still have to test grounds and wire resistance. I figured out how the fuse panel comes apart, a subject I've been trying to learn about for many months in connection with other repairs.

I haven't fixed the hacked-up rear starting system yet, as I'm focused on checking all the power and ground leads for the 434 error. The connectors have all been opened, cleaned, checked for problems, de-oxit'd and reassembled.

One problem with wire checking is that the transition from Cummins schematics to BB schematics is in the "23 pin" connector where Cummins used letter identifiers and BB uses numerics. I haven't found a conversion. As a result, I'm having trouble finding some 10A fuses referred to in the troubleshooting guide, but I'm sure they are there.
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2007 Double Slide M380 "Bertie"

Last edited by RVinCT; 08-25-2019 at 08:40 AM.
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  #125  
Old 08-25-2019
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Another update:
All tests on the engine ECU have been completed. No sign of problems. I've removed the hacked up wire the dealer installed and reconnected the wires they cut (for testing I've just wire nutted the cut ends together.). It works perfectly. It starts from the front with the rear door closed and from the rear with the door open. They spent 3 days trying to get it started before cutting the wires and bypassing the interlocks. They tried to charge me for that work. I declined.

Next up, I'll connect the Silverleaf and do more engine run testing, hoping that the 434 error, the dash lights flashing restart, and the engine stoppages are all gone.

Wish me luck again.
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Rockfall, CT
2007 Double Slide M380 "Bertie"
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  #126  
Old 08-25-2019
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Great, did you find the 10A fuses?
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  #127  
Old 08-25-2019
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Technically, no. But, I measured battery voltage and resistance from every ECU 12V+ pin to the engine battery positive terminal and from every ECU ground pin to the engine battery negative terminal. All resistances were 1 ohm or less and the schematic from Cummins shows that some of those V+ pins go through the OEM supplied 10A fuses to the battery. So, they must have been connected. I may trace them more carefully when I permanently fix the cut wires. In lieu of locating and checking the 10A fuses, I just checked and cleaned all fuses and fuse terminals.
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2007 Double Slide M380 "Bertie"

Last edited by RVinCT; 08-25-2019 at 03:38 PM.
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  #128  
Old 08-25-2019
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BTW, the ISL is designed with a diagnostic switch that when turned on will cause a light to blink and give you fault codes when you turn on the ignition. I found a reference to that switch in the BB schematics and in the Cummins literature. But, I can't find it. There's a light and switch mounted on a little panel below my right side of the dash which I was told was for my alarm system (I see no other sign of that alleged system). Anyone know where that diagnostic switch is located? I'd sort of like to confirm my error codes, if possible.
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Todd and Karen Pattist
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2007 Double Slide M380 "Bertie"
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  #129  
Old 08-25-2019
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The results are in:

One hour engine run test. First 5 minutes, last 10 minutes and two 1-2 minute checks in the middle at 700 rpm. All the rest of the time the engine ran at high idle 1300 rpm.

The lowest mechanical idle oil pressure reading was 26 psi at 700 rpm and 180° water temperature.
The lowest electronic gauge OP reading was zero, occasionally fluctuating to one needle above zero.

There were no buzzer alarms.
No "all dash lights on" resets.
No Check Engine lights.
No Check Transmission lights (I saw these before but didn't mention them).
There were no error codes or reports from RoadRunner 4.
There were no error codes or reports of any kind from Silverleaf. None of the "invalid data" or power supply errors I saw from Silverleaf before.
No shutdowns.

I'm going to call that a success ..... and breathe a sigh of relief. All that's left is to permanently fix the wires that the dealer cut and replace the 20 zip ties I had to remove to trace wires and connectors. Oh, and then it's back to the vacation

Thank you all for the help.
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2007 Double Slide M380 "Bertie"
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  #130  
Old 08-25-2019
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Wow. Congratulations on a successful outcome. I applaud your effort and persistence.


Not a great way to start your relationship with a new vehicle but in one respect it really is good. You have a new feeling of confidence in your troubleshooting abilities and a new reason to be wary of hacks at dealers.

And you now have a much better understanding of the systems of your bus. Plus your writing it all up might someday help others who might have been lost ( like me) or intimidated by the size and complexity of these wonderful machines

I think it’s a win all around.

Max
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