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  #81  
Old 09-15-2015
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rwoody rwoody is offline
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power of the WOG is Far reaching!! awesome!!
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  #82  
Old 09-16-2015
Gladiator70 Gladiator70 is offline
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Originally Posted by isp2952 View Post
Ben,
This is something I would consider doing if I were you. Go to the police department of the town where the business is located. Talk to them and see if they have a detective that has enough energy to follow up on this. This is outright fraud. I worked several cases that were very similar. Where they can get this guy by the short hairs is him not being able to provide receipts or a list of parts and suppliers he purchased them from. If he does give them a list, they then follow up and go to the suppliers, that he states he purchased the items from, but didn't bother to keep the receipts. The supplier will still have them if he actually bought them. Or more than likely the supplier will say we never heard of this guy and never sold him anything before. Then they have him. Then you may get him squeezed enough to pay you off to get the cops off his a**, or in a plea deal get the prosecutor to get some or all of it back, or if convicted the judge could order restitution. I always got a lot more satisfaction out of working a case where the victim recovered what was lost than putting some scum in jail, where we continue to pay, by keeping him there. If the city cops aren't interested try the local sheriff's department, or state agency. Not that you would have much luck but you could also contact the Secret Service. They handle Credit Card Fraud or did back in my working days.

My son-in-law had a business where one of his employees ripped him off for over $300 LARGE! He was going to give up on it and I got him in contact with a cop in Chicago, where the business was located. Anyway, my son-in-law got his money back when the judge ordered restitution. The scums family, who had money, came through and paid it. They still got a conviction and a criminal record on top of it, just no jail time, since they paid.

Don't hesitate to call me if you need any help with this. I still have a few contacts, but the list is getting smaller. I retired 13 years ago after 30 years of dealing with that kind of scum, so there are fewer contacts around, the older I get.


Hey Jim, thanks for the support. And thank you for the 30 years of Scum Hunting! Your son in law must have been beyond happy to get all that money back, that's pretty incredible. I agree with you about jail, I say put em' to work! Make em' work off the crime! It would have been nice to have contacted you right after it happened, but I didn't feel it would be appropriate to bring that kind of drama to the site while it was going on.

So I'm pretty sure Robert had the BB for about 6 months (more than enough time to finish it!!!) before I pulled it out of there. So this was about a year and a half ago, would they follow up on something that old? I didn't bother trying to call the police because I figured they would just go with what the credit card company decided. I wish I would have called them now.

After we filed the claim with the credit card company, Robert had to hurry and make up some invoices to prove the charges. This is how we got some of the money back, his dates and amounts on the invoices didn't match up with the charged dates and amounts. Plus he repeated a few things in different invoices, charging me for the same thing more than once.

Most of the bogus stuff was labor, outrageous charges for things he didn't do, or things I didn't want done, or charged me 10 times over what it should have cost.

The exhaust header was cracked and I told him to buy a new one and install it, instead he welded the crack and painted it!!!!! I told him not to paint the engine and he painted it anyways and he charged me $600. I told him numerous times I would get rid of the donor vehicle for him, he told me not to worry about it he could scrap it, well he then charged me $1k for getting rid of it (which I don't think he paid anything to remove). $2k for pulling the engine out. Some crazy amount for making those motor mounts, etc., etc., etc....... I would have to see the invoices again, I can't remember all the labor descriptions.

I shouldn't have said "ALL those parts he bought", it was way more labor charges than anything. He did buy some brand new parts; custom radiator, gauges, compressor, and a few other things I can't remember off the top of my head. The engine, tranny and all the parts are in a warehouse in Ripon, CA and I haven't seen them in a year and a half, so I forget what all is there.

When he made the last charge after I told him not to use the card anymore, I blocked him from the card (should've done it prior, life was hectic at the time, had a new baby and doing a house remodel), I called him and said I'm towing it out of there immediately!
He said I was now all payed up, that he had charged me for the whole engine swap when the swap was nowhere near finished. I didn't need to pay for anymore labor or parts. Complete joker.

But that isn't what he said when I filed the claim on him, now all the sudden he has invoices for humongous amounts attached to small labor jobs that he did and did not do, and I'm paid up to what's been done so far (which was nothing).

I would imagine the reason he wouldn't give me the receipts for the parts is because he charged me way more than he paid for them.

I gave up on it because it was complicated, no can say he didn't spend all those labor hours doing a small job that should take 10 minutes.

Anyways, I would like to hear your thoughts Jim.
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  #83  
Old 09-16-2015
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isp2952 isp2952 is offline
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Originally Posted by Gladiator70 View Post
Hey Jim, thanks for the support. And thank you for the 30 years of Scum Hunting! Your son in law must have been beyond happy to get all that money back, that's pretty incredible. I agree with you about jail, I say put em' to work! Make em' work off the crime! It would have been nice to have contacted you right after it happened, but I didn't feel it would be appropriate to bring that kind of drama to the site while it was going on.

So I'm pretty sure Robert had the BB for about 6 months (more than enough time to finish it!!!) before I pulled it out of there. So this was about a year and a half ago, would they follow up on something that old? I didn't bother trying to call the police because I figured they would just go with what the credit card company decided. I wish I would have called them now.

After we filed the claim with the credit card company, Robert had to hurry and make up some invoices to prove the charges. This is how we got some of the money back, his dates and amounts on the invoices didn't match up with the charged dates and amounts. Plus he repeated a few things in different invoices, charging me for the same thing more than once.

Most of the bogus stuff was labor, outrageous charges for things he didn't do, or things I didn't want done, or charged me 10 times over what it should have cost.

The exhaust header was cracked and I told him to buy a new one and install it, instead he welded the crack and painted it!!!!! I told him not to paint the engine and he painted it anyways and he charged me $600. I told him numerous times I would get rid of the donor vehicle for him, he told me not to worry about it he could scrap it, well he then charged me $1k for getting rid of it (which I don't think he paid anything to remove). $2k for pulling the engine out. Some crazy amount for making those motor mounts, etc., etc., etc....... I would have to see the invoices again, I can't remember all the labor descriptions.

I shouldn't have said "ALL those parts he bought", it was way more labor charges than anything. He did buy some brand new parts; custom radiator, gauges, compressor, and a few other things I can't remember off the top of my head. The engine, tranny and all the parts are in a warehouse in Ripon, CA and I haven't seen them in a year and a half, so I forget what all is there.

When he made the last charge after I told him not to use the card anymore, I blocked him from the card (should've done it prior, life was hectic at the time, had a new baby and doing a house remodel), I called him and said I'm towing it out of there immediately!
He said I was now all payed up, that he had charged me for the whole engine swap when the swap was nowhere near finished. I didn't need to pay for anymore labor or parts. Complete joker.

But that isn't what he said when I filed the claim on him, now all the sudden he has invoices for humongous amounts attached to small labor jobs that he did and did not do, and I'm paid up to what's been done so far (which was nothing).

I would imagine the reason he wouldn't give me the receipts for the parts is because he charged me way more than he paid for them.

I gave up on it because it was complicated, no can say he didn't spend all those labor hours doing a small job that should take 10 minutes.

Anyways, I would like to hear your thoughts Jim.
Well Ben, knowing a little more of the story you left yourself open, without question. It looks like most of what he did he can "explain" and very little you can "dispute". The above paragraph in red is the only part that really helps you, from what I read. It follows along with my initial response that an aggressive investigator would look for things like that. But the "hours" he spent on the labor end of the job, you can't do much with that. The only way you might have any chance with something like that would be if you got a written estimate of labor. Then he would have to be so far out of the norm from that, that anybody could see he ripped you off. Not likely to happen.

Just for your information, not sure about your jurisdiction, but here in Indiana misdemeanors are 6 months statute of limitations. Felonies are 5 years statute of limitations. Murder is no limit. Yours probably would have fallen into the felony category, if you would have a case. But, because you waited as long as you did and the circumstances, now seem to lean more toward the civil end, you would be hard pressed to get somebody to look at it for you. I have on a couple of occasions done it in cases similar to yours. But with mixed results. The people who do this kind of stuff usually have done it many times and know what to do and what not to do. Sometimes you get a beginner and when a cop walks in and starts asking the right questions they screw up and start lying. Then you might have enough to get a subpoena for records. I have walked back into the business and handed then a subpoena for records and all of a sudden they start asking what can I do to make this go away. I recovered money for folks that got screwed in home repairs a few times, that way. I have to admit I have never done it for an auto repair, because I never ran into one that got up to the kind of money you are talking about. But the process is the same. If you were in my jurisdiction and I was still working I would knock on this A holes door! I wouldn't hesitate. Maybe I would get lucky. Maybe not. But without a doubt every time this guy picked up a wrench, he would think about me. He would know that I know he is a crook and a low life scum of the earth and that I might be back and he might not be as lucky the next time.

So Ben, I'd say you learned an expensive lesson. Sorry! I think I would still go to the local police and run it by them. You might find somebody that is a little more energetic and willing to at least pay the guy a visit. It will take somebody with a little experience and ability to know what buttons to push. I always loved the challenge. Maybe you will find somebody that also loves a challenge.
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  #84  
Old 09-16-2015
Gladiator70 Gladiator70 is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sacramento
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isp2952 View Post
Well Ben, knowing a little more of the story you left yourself open, without question. It looks like most of what he did he can "explain" and very little you can "dispute". The above paragraph in red is the only part that really helps you, from what I read. It follows along with my initial response that an aggressive investigator would look for things like that. But the "hours" he spent on the labor end of the job, you can't do much with that. The only way you might have any chance with something like that would be if you got a written estimate of labor. Then he would have to be so far out of the norm from that, that anybody could see he ripped you off. Not likely to happen.

Just for your information, not sure about your jurisdiction, but here in Indiana misdemeanors are 6 months statute of limitations. Felonies are 5 years statute of limitations. Murder is no limit. Yours probably would have fallen into the felony category, if you would have a case. But, because you waited as long as you did and the circumstances, now seem to lean more toward the civil end, you would be hard pressed to get somebody to look at it for you. I have on a couple of occasions done it in cases similar to yours. But with mixed results. The people who do this kind of stuff usually have done it many times and know what to do and what not to do. Sometimes you get a beginner and when a cop walks in and starts asking the right questions they screw up and start lying. Then you might have enough to get a subpoena for records. I have walked back into the business and handed then a subpoena for records and all of a sudden they start asking what can I do to make this go away. I recovered money for folks that got screwed in home repairs a few times, that way. I have to admit I have never done it for an auto repair, because I never ran into one that got up to the kind of money you are talking about. But the process is the same. If you were in my jurisdiction and I was still working I would knock on this A holes door! I wouldn't hesitate. Maybe I would get lucky. Maybe not. But without a doubt every time this guy picked up a wrench, he would think about me. He would know that I know he is a crook and a low life scum of the earth and that I might be back and he might not be as lucky the next time.

So Ben, I'd say you learned an expensive lesson. Sorry! I think I would still go to the local police and run it by them. You might find somebody that is a little more energetic and willing to at least pay the guy a visit. It will take somebody with a little experience and ability to know what buttons to push. I always loved the challenge. Maybe you will find somebody that also loves a challenge.


Good stuff Jim, thanks.
I knew deep down even though he screwed me, that I created the monster... which is another reason I gave up on it. I could really only blame myself.

I think you're right though, I will try to talk to the police. I will order my statements for that time period and the credit card company should still have the invoices.

Robert never sent me a invoice the whole time, he sent the credit card company the invoices after the claim started, which is when I saw them. He was only supposed to use the credit card for parts. I told him I would order the parts, but he thought he needed to do it since he was the "expert". And unfortunately I trusted him.

Also, I'm positive the labor charges are way out of the norm. I'm sure I could get a different mechanic to agree. So maybe there's something there.

A felony would have been great to stick him with, I would have never guessed that, but it makes sense. Also I agree with you that I should try and get someone to knock on his door.... and possibly put the fear of God into him so he won't do it again.

At the time, my dad, who's a retired Border Patrol Agent, had told me to go to the Police.... I should have listened.

Thanks for your time and knowledge Jim, I will let you know if anything comes of it.
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