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Transmission Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's transmission.

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  #1  
Old 02-02-2016
KCSS's Avatar
KCSS KCSS is offline
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Default DO NOT SHIFT - KC

First I want to say thanks to all that provided technical and moral support during my transmission crisis.

I spent well in excess of 100 hours chasing this problem. I tried everything I, WOG members, Dale B., & Trans Diesel (Allison & DD shop) could think of from inspecting and cleaning tons of the circular AMP CPC connectors, CANNON connector at the transmission, wiring harnesses, new TPS sensor, VSS connections, new ATEC computer, shifter keypad etc. Probably in the neighborhood of 700-800 wire connections. All without success.

Two invaluable items were:

(1) Troubleshooting Manual Ts2712en Allison Transmission ...
downloads.jnjdiesel.com/pdf/TS2712EN.pdf
It covers the following on- and off-highway transmission models: On-Highway. Off -Highway. MT(B) 648. CLBT 5962 and 6062. HT(B) 741, 746 and 748. DP 8963. Downloaded this from the internet.

(2) DIAGRAM, MASTER WIRING, CHASSIS, DDEC II. Drawing number 1475649. I can’t recall where this came from – (Wanderlodge forums?). Although it was for a DDEC II it at least gave me some idea of where & what to look at.

As of now I can’t pinpoint any single item or issue that was the root cause of my problem but I highly suspect the following:

THE IGNITION REAR START BOX. Included in this box, along with the rear/front selector switch are the ignition switch, a hydraulic oil filter bypass switch, an indicator light, and (attached to the roof - inside) a second set of diodes. I have no idea exactly what function these diodes perform, much less why they are even located inside this box. The drawings I have show only 1 set of diodes, which I found inside the rear closet along with the ECU relay. These diodes are not connected to anything inside the box (such as the rear/front toggle switch). They just happen to live in there. Wiring enters and exits the box from two 6-position flat multi-pin connectors. I removed that box, completely disassembled it, thoroughly cleaned all connections, re-assembled and reinstalled the box. Wallah !!! I have the trans test light - Now I can pull codes. Code 66 came up – TECL (Transmission/Engine Communications Link).
The trans would go into forward & reverse but I was not sure if it would shift. Trans test light continually blinking out code 66 even with ignition off. I did not want to take any chances. A trip to the Allison shop (along with drawings) was called for. Was advised it was safe to drive the coach but the TECL might cause hard shifting. Came home. Re-read options for clearing codes without using a Pro Link. No luck. Then I disconnected my jumped wire on the rear frame mounted 3 psi Kysor oil switch (which prevents the trans from doing anything until oil pressure is detected).. Took the coach out for a test run. Everything seems to be working as it always has. Things are looking good. As a precaution I will be taking the coach to the trans shop for complete diagnostic check.
Talk about a happy camper.
The attached files are from my particular coach – yours may be different
ATEC pin out identification
Front/rear switch box
Switch box wiring
Attached Files
File Type: pdf J1A J1B harness connector ATEC ECU.pdf (113.4 KB, 253 views)
File Type: pdf Rear Start Diagram.pdf (265.4 KB, 127 views)
File Type: pdf Rear Start Wiring Connections.pdf (189.9 KB, 129 views)
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2000 LXI
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  #2  
Old 02-02-2016
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Stick Miller Stick Miller is offline
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...and since the rear ignition box was one of the things you suspected all along, there it is. Funny, though, that you thoroughly cleaned and inspected everything in that box early on, to no avail.

Just glad you're up and running.
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  #3  
Old 02-02-2016
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Sounds like good news KC.
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  #4  
Old 02-02-2016
bubblerboy64 bubblerboy64 is offline
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You know they say God never gives a person a problem he can't handle. If you weren't such a good mechanic and problem solver you wouldn't have this stuff happen KC.

Sounds like he almost stumped the chump on that one.

Glad you fixed it. Being shiftless isn't a good thing.
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  #5  
Old 02-02-2016
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WAY to GO KC, you are now the electrical tranny expert.
Must be relieved and ready for a nights sleep, Thanks for the write-up
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  #6  
Old 02-02-2016
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KC, The ECU Diodes are connected to 2 relays and are for the transmission.

Mine are located in the font lower main electrical panel.

You may have had a dirty connection, or one of them is going south.
You may want to also check the relays associate with them just to be sure.

One is connected to the ECU Oil Pressure Switch and the other is connected to the Cruise Control/Rear Start Switch Pink Wire

Glad you got her shifting
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Port St. Lucie, FL.
1990 WB 40 "Northern Lights"
Body #F92929
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  #7  
Old 02-02-2016
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Jeff Jeff is offline
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Talking OUTSTANDING AS USUAL!!

Don't let anyone say otherwise!!
As usual---YOUR JUST BEYOND OUTSTANDING!!!!
CONGRADULATIONS!!!!!!

If only I could reach that level of investigative solution solving!
FANTASTIC. DID YOUR PILL RESERVES SURVIVE?

SAFE SHIFTING!!!
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Fernandina Bch., Florida
1985 PT36'
2014 F150 4X4
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  #8  
Old 02-02-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brhodes View Post
KC, The ECU Diodes are connected to 2 relays and are for the transmission.

Mine are located in the font lower main electrical panel.

You may have had a dirty connection, or one of them is going south.
You may want to also check the relays associate with them just to be sure.

One is connected to the ECU Oil Pressure Switch and the other is connected to the Cruise Control/Rear Start Switch Pink Wire

Glad you got her shifting
Barry, do you have a DDEC I or DDEC II? I have a DDEC 1. The drawing I referred to is for a DDEC II and it does show 2 relays - one for the ECU & one for the check trans light. Both are tied to a single pair of diodes. I found the ECU relay and diodes in the rear closet.. It was working fine but I replaced it anyway. The check trans relay receives power from the batteries - thru the ECU oil pressure switch. I still have not found that relay. I did make a long switched jumper so I could make and break that circuit while listening for the relay click. - no luck, front or back. . Buttoned everything up today. I'm done for a while
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  #9  
Old 02-02-2016
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Mallie Lennon Mallie Lennon is offline
1995 WB 42’ Series 60
 
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KC,, Detroit Allison could have done all you did and probably would not have cost much over 10 grand.
Glad you stayed with it and got it going. You will now be better prepared to deal with any problems in the future.
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  #10  
Old 02-02-2016
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Default Allison Transmission wire identification

KC,
I have a DDEC II engine and I do not believe it will have any impact related to your Allison transmission as the transmission only interfaces to throttle position, and RPM's from the motor.
My 2 relays and ECU (transmission) diodes are located in the main lower front electrical compartment above breaker #64 in the attached photo. I will guess that since your ECU diodes are located in the rear, that your relays should be very close or possibly one is located closer to the transmission or shifter panel as it is related to the transmission oil pressure switch which is on the tranny. The Allison transmission is very dependent on having a clean DC power source of at least 10-16 Vdc at all times. It also wants a good ground, particularly related to the EMI shield ground wire coming off of the ECU box which must only be connected to a clean frame contact point and never to a battery negative terminal.

I have uploaded the manual to John Finn as it was 55.5 meg and is 332 or so pages long.

I would guess that cleaning all of the connections as well as the grounds in the rear switch box has fixed your issue as this box can get very dirty inside as it is not well sealed which is why many of the rear switches fail.

Additional wire identification file below also which may help
Only my best guess, so hope it helps.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Front Fuse breaker relays.jpg
Views:	188
Size:	210.3 KB
ID:	40629  
Attached Files
File Type: doc Allison Transmission Basic Overview.doc (28.5 KB, 254 views)
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1990 WB 40 "Northern Lights"
Body #F92929
brhodes51@yahoo.com

Last edited by brhodes; 02-02-2016 at 10:45 PM. Reason: Additional Info
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