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Engine Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's engine.

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  #11  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
ChrisRasman ChrisRasman is offline
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Less cooling capacity is needed on a city bus that starts/stops/waits and never gets up to any sustained high speed. They are also geared for it. The New Flyer XD40 has 280hp, weighs 26,000 empty. They run their engines at the highest possible temperature (as do all modern engines) which allows for the largest temperature delta possible for a more effective cooling system.

The EMP fan system for this transit bus takes 3300 watts (5hp) to run, the Prevost big boy probably takes more than that.

Prevost is offering a retrofit fan setup for other Prevost coaches. Probably costs more than I make in a year.
No joke. They show an electric, brushless hydraulic oil pump. 4 GPM @100PSI. Long way to go, but promising .
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  #12  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
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NH Bill NH Bill is offline
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If you need more power NHBill,you need to buy an S60 powered coach!
Indeed, that would solve the problem.
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  #13  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
ChrisRasman ChrisRasman is offline
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Default Prevost electric cooling fans

I know they push IN air and we exhaust OUT. The fans are cheap. It take a thermistor (maybe a few and average them out) , a smart sensor and SCRs for each fan to throttle them. Also have to have some sort of voltage monitoring to tell if fan fails and signal an alert. Some aluminum sheet. lots of cutting and TIG (that, or find one of these and just turn it around). I think we have the folks on the WOG to sort this out. I could make the shroud (not till winter). We could loose the PTO. Might have to add an alternator and a dedicated LiPo battery????

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Last edited by ChrisRasman; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:13 PM. Reason: Add WWW site
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  #14  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
ChrisRasman ChrisRasman is offline
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I think we need to add a LIKE button like FB. I agree, but I just made a comments and I think it's doable. Cost and efficiency is the key. I for one would be tickled to loose my PTO.

I nuked it. Reading of cheap automotive cooling fans with two speeds (new). Simple thermostat inline to switch high and low.
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Last edited by ChrisRasman; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:23 PM. Reason: Better idea
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  #15  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
ChrisRasman ChrisRasman is offline
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General blurb about large electric fans in modern cars. 8 fans running full tilt take about 300 amps. Hmmm.

Wiring is the area in which some car crafters may need some help. Rather than simply toggling these electric fans on and off in high-speed mode, there is a simple and easy way to wire the fan to operate it in both modes, running the high speed only when necessary. This is especially important when you consider that the fan’s high-speed side demands every bit of the 40 to 42 amps to keep it spinning. This places significant load on the charging system. Low-speed operation pulls a more conservative 28 amps.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago
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I think if you put an aux engine in the back and run a hydraulic pump off of that engine to run the hydraulic fan you will be better off!!


What i don't get it why Prevost wants to take off that miter box and all that good stuff and put electric fans on.
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Same reason many egg heads have their panties in a wad over fuels that come from under ground. False hope, there is none.
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  #18  
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Originally Posted by Randy Dupree View Post
I think if you put an aux engine in the back and run a hydraulic pump off of that engine to run the hydraulic fan you will be better off!!

What i don't get it why Prevost wants to take off that miter box and all that good stuff and put electric fans on.
The only efficiency to be gained is all under the curve, so anything they can take out of there makes it a bit more efficient. Belts and gearboxes are not as efficient and they cannot reliably vary the fan speed.

It's also more cost-effective to have those brushless fans mass-produced ($5 each). They have 25 alternators already installed so they just need to beef up a couple to handle the extra load. The wiring harness and electronics are rudimentary and inexpensive to make.

There is also a level of redundancy with 8 fans or whatever. If one dies the computer knows it. If one starts dying it knows before it's down. You can replace one fan then. They PWM all of those fans to run them at the bare minimum speed needed to cool what they are doing and they have tachometers on all of them to monitor performance. If you lose one or two out on the road you still get where you're going, just slower. You can also reverse the direction of the fans to clean them or maybe there is an operating situation where it's better to move air the other way, such as idling. Having a bunch of smaller fans should also make better use of the whole radiator, like in the corners.

It's just like an inverter A/C, they constantly vary the speed so it's only running as hard as it needs to. Everything is like this now - inverter fridge, mild hybrid cars, cooling fans on your car, water heaters, 10 speed automatics, etc.
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  #19  
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ChrisRasman ChrisRasman is offline
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Default All electric

Randy, I am talking about an all electric cooling solution. Maybe a secondary, one wire alternator to a 3 or 4 LiPo battry (Battle born be drop in) bank for the fans. BB batteries have built BMS and can run on a normal alternator.

I'm working the price out (for fun) right now. I have 3 new BB battries right now that I am saving. They would just carry a fan cluster like this. I was going to get a few more and replace the house battries, but I changed my mind and picked up a Nissan Leaf Gen 2 battery pack. This winter I am going to make a 48 volt LiPo pack out of it with a roof full of solar and replace the house battries. I have a new Victron inverter and all the extras to make this (and 12 volts) work

As for the fans, would it save a few MPGs in the end? I think it would. It might even lower the engine and transmission temps to due to the loss of the PTO/pump. All that would go back in to the system would be a small (secondary) alternator Would it make the cooling system any simpler, I think so. Money wise, after looking at what the PTO, pump and fan motor cost, it might be equable upgrade. It sure get rid of all that (PTO/pump) and maybe that's what Prevost is going for. I am not in the place just yet to try it just yet. Hopefully this winter I will have a 'bird house' out back. Even if I can't swing that. I can park it out back and the winter weather here as you know, is working weather. I try not to work in the 98' 100% humidity stuff
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  #20  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
badandy badandy is offline
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Originally Posted by ChrisRasman View Post
Randy, I am talking about an all electric cooling solution. Maybe a secondary, one wire alternator to a 3 or 4 LiPo battry (Battle born be drop in) bank for the fans. BB batteries have built BMS and can run on a normal alternator.

I'm working the price out (for fun) right now. I have 3 new BB battries right now that I am saving. They would just carry a fan cluster like this.
There is no need for a giant battery for this, especially not 1.2kwh worth of way overpriced don't-like-heat lithium Battleborns. When the engine is running there would be zero consumption from the battery because the alternators are doing all the work.
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