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Electrical Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's electrical system.

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  #41  
Old 12-17-2019
MRPutz MRPutz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi3 View Post
You might want to check out some of the diagrams on Explorist Life. They build vans, but with really big electrical systems. He will even review your plans, for a fee. He has walkthroughs on the fuses, wire sizing, building bus bars, etc..
https://www.explorist.life/solarwiringdiagrams/
Looks like he has a "fee" for EVERYTHING. I was afraid to click to the next page for fear of being charged! We have many resources on WOG that offer most of what he's selling for FREE.

$9.95 for an solar-inverter-isolator drawing
$40 per month to register for a private DIY camper crew
$45 for a 30 minute 1on1 video consultation
$185 for a custom solar wiring diagram
$70 for a solar wiring diagram review

After the 20+ popup adds asking me if I needed a printable wiring diagram I feel like I need a shower and need to update my popup blocker!
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[CENTER][FONT=Comic Sans MS][B][SIZE="4"]Michael & Tami Putz[/B][/SIZE]
78FC35SB & 83FC35SB[FONT=Arial] Wanderlodge[/FONT] - [FONT=Comic Sans MS]"[COLOR=blue][B]Putz'n Around[/B][/COLOR]"[/FONT]
'90 GL1500 Goldwing | '67 VW Rail | '82 CJ5 Jeep
eMail=[EMAIL="Mike.Putz@cox.net"]Mike.Putz@cox.net[/EMAIL] | Web=[url]http://mikeputz.com/[/url][COLOR=#0000ff]
Solar = [url]https://www.solarpenny.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=257[/url][/COLOR][/FONT]
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  #42  
Old 12-17-2019
ChrisRasman ChrisRasman is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Fort Myers
Posts: 820
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I appreciate the help. I got to say that between Battle Born, and Victron I have plenty of help. I have been getting ready for this for many months. I had a pretty good idea of what I have to do to begin with. I sent my plan to the Battle Borne engineer and he came back with a 'almost all there' email with some suggestions inside a day. That's why I went from 12 volts to 48, my wire sizes changed and tonight I decided to add some fuses to the system. Two times the BB engineer called me and chatted about what I am doing. I want to segment up the system with four 250 amp fuses, one at the last battery in each bank, and one at the inverter. he was telling me I really didn't need the four since the batteries each have BMSs. That's true but I feel better and he (of course) agreed.

I emailed Victron support with a few questions and the have gotten back to me now within a day each time.

I got my aluminum sheet and square tube to enlarge the inverter shelf for the new unit today. My garage is on back order for the lack of siding so I still have to weld out front of my little shop. It's supposed to rain later today (bed time !) into Wednesday. Once I get the inverter in I can start wiring. I also have to make a tray for the batteries. I am still not sure of the final form of the stack. They can be piled up just about anyway possible and work.
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2003 Wanderlodge 40LX
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  #43  
Old 12-18-2019
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NoGas NoGas is offline
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Default Battle Born Teardown - What’s Inside?

If you can stand his annoying voice, this geeky kid will make you feel even better about selecting Battle Born’s:

https://youtu.be/G5E30u-66VI

It will be interesting to see what price they’ll be asking for their BB’s this year at the Q tent. The past couple they’ve had some healthy discounts going.
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  #44  
Old 12-18-2019
badandy badandy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGas View Post
If you can stand this geeky kid
I can't stand him, but I learned something from watching this video. The BMS that BB uses is an off-the-shelf Chicom model that costs $10 in qty (I found it on Alibaba). The cells are Chineslium 18650's, 120 of them, and they cost max $1/ea. They have the plastic parts molded in China for only a few bucks each. They claim they built a machine to weld the battery packs together in the USA, but I bet that came straight off the boat, too. I wouldn't be surprised if the battery plastics were all off-the-shelf from some place in China.

Then I found this video, much more informative. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmaIJvsoSig They claim to characterize the 18650's and match them up so that's good. But I question the wisdom of a company that uses that cheap junk BMS. Building their own is not hard or expensive.
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  #45  
Old 12-18-2019
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Kiwi3 Kiwi3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRPutz View Post
Looks like he has a "fee" for EVERYTHING. I was afraid to click to the next page for fear of being charged! We have many resources on WOG that offer most of what he's selling for FREE.

$9.95 for an solar-inverter-isolator drawing
$40 per month to register for a private DIY camper crew
$45 for a 30 minute 1on1 video consultation
$185 for a custom solar wiring diagram
$70 for a solar wiring diagram review

After the 20+ popup adds asking me if I needed a printable wiring diagram I feel like I need a shower and need to update my popup blocker!
I don't fault the guy for trying to make a living. His YouTube is has most of the information for free, and a good screen grab program lets me borrow his premade setups. I do like his shopping lists. But then I'm a different generation and I don't really care if I get personalized, face-to-face, or phone consultation. So his site is basically free for me. I'm glad you looked up his fees, I've never even looked for them.
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  #46  
Old 12-18-2019
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Kiwi3 Kiwi3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badandy View Post
I can't stand him, but I learned something from watching this video. The BMS that BB uses is an off-the-shelf Chicom model that costs $10 in qty (I found it on Alibaba). The cells are Chineslium 18650's, 120 of them, and they cost max $1/ea. They have the plastic parts molded in China for only a few bucks each. They claim they built a machine to weld the battery packs together in the USA, but I bet that came straight off the boat, too. I wouldn't be surprised if the battery plastics were all off-the-shelf from some place in China.

Then I found this video, much more informative. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmaIJvsoSig They claim to characterize the 18650's and match them up so that's good. But I question the wisdom of a company that uses that cheap junk BMS. Building their own is not hard or expensive.
I think their selling point is the 10 year warranty and drop in design.
The average RVer doesn't want to have to mad science the battery bay. They want to drop the batteries in and go on with their lives.

For us forum folks, tinkering is a lifestyle so we don't mind building our own. I figured out that I could build two 12 volt batteries for less than the cost of one BB (see Will's video). But, then I'm responsible for programming the BMS, assembly, low temp control, and have zero warranty. Screw up and I can kill the batteries (lost $$$) or worse burn my coach down (lost even more $$$$$$ and maybe a life). So I'm leaning toward not trying to build my own either. And I'm a guy that has milled, built, and shot my own firearms. But everyone has their own acceptable risk based on their own expertise. I wish I was as confident in building electrical systems but I'm not. Which means I have to spend a bit more $.
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1994 Wide Body #106048 "Going Galt"
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  #47  
Old 12-18-2019
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Randy Dupree Randy Dupree is offline
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Location: Port St Joe,Fl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRPutz View Post
Looks like he has a "fee" for EVERYTHING. I was afraid to click to the next page for fear of being charged! We have many resources on WOG that offer most of what he's selling for FREE.

$9.95 for an solar-inverter-isolator drawing
$40 per month to register for a private DIY camper crew
$45 for a 30 minute 1on1 video consultation
$185 for a custom solar wiring diagram
$70 for a solar wiring diagram review

After the 20+ popup adds asking me if I needed a printable wiring diagram I feel like I need a shower and need to update my popup blocker!

I never go anywhere else but WOG for any advice on solar.
Going outside for advice is like taking a Mercedes to a chevy dealer..
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  #48  
Old 12-18-2019
badandy badandy is online now
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Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: delavan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi3 View Post
I think their selling point is the 10 year warranty and drop in design.
The average RVer doesn't want to have to mad science the battery bay. They want to drop the batteries in and go on with their lives.
I'm cool with that (big cajones), but this made in America super-marketed over the top priced battery has the cheapest Chinese commodity stuff inside. You won't engineer some BMS stuff, I get that, and there aren't good options on the market to be honest. The #1 killer of DIY lithium are the cheap junk BMSes everyone uses. Here, instead of doing the right thing and having one designed and assembled correctly they cheaped out 100% and did the same thing, but in a nice box so you can't see it.

You can go to Alibaba and buy a 100ah lifepo4 12v battery made with pouch cells (arguably better tech) or cylindrical 18650's with a built in BMS from the same manufacturer as BB uses for $200 with a 2-year warrantee. The only implied technical value-add that BB claims is their cell-matching, but I have my doubts about that. It might just enable them to buy the absolutely cheapest of the cheap sub $1 cells and toss the duds, that seems more likely. They shouldn't have to match cells that are brand new.

Nobody knows what's inside this stuff until someone chops it open like Will did. Of course he says it's awesome and he talks fast, so he must be right.
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  #49  
Old 12-19-2019
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Kiwi3 Kiwi3 is offline
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Hey Chris
Just wondering if you have considered a Current Surge Limiter as part of the system since you have both a big inverter and a big battery bank?

Quote:
The CSL500 Current Surge Limiter is a FET-based current limiting device that is to be used with Battle Born Batteries LiFePO4 battery packs when they are used in conjunction with large (greater than 4kW) inverter/chargers. The device is mounted permanently in series between the negative pole of the battery bank and the negative DC input terminal of the inverter/charger. The device protects the battery management system (BMS) from damage caused by the initial current spike that is created when connecting directly to the large capacitors (> 5 milliFarads) that are typically on the DC input side of the inverter/chargers. The device allows the batteries to slowly charge the capacitors (within 1 ms). This soft start avoids the high-current shutoff inherent to the BMS of the batteries.

Battle Born Batteries csl500 current surge limiter
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  #50  
Old 12-19-2019
badandy badandy is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi3 View Post
Hey Chris
Just wondering if you have considered a Current Surge Limiter as part of the system since you have both a big inverter and a big battery bank?

Ah it gets better! Another $280 to not fry the BMSes in the batteries when you turn on the master switch for your inverter. And it's solid state, using MOSFETs, so when it fails they fail closed, just like the ones on the BMS. I wonder how hot it gets. Another $10 China part.
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