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Engine Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's engine.

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  #1  
Old 05-28-2011
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Hoagie Hoagie is offline
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Default Engine Coolant PH & Antifreeze Recommendations

Morning guys,

Sorry about this question its the newbee coming out in me How do I make sure I have the proper coolant PH balance in my Cat 3208/Perkins. If I need PH additive, what is it called and would NAPA have it
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  #2  
Old 05-28-2011
Frank W. Frank W. is offline
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I get my additive from NAPA...can't recall the specific name/part number - but they got it.

They also sell the test strips...but as I recall...in a kit of like 50 (#4107)...so I just borrowed some ph testing strips from a science teacher where I work.

It takes several bottles of additive to make any real ph change in the large cooling system in an FC, you have the main engine loop as well as the heating loop for the chassis heat/hot water heater.

In adding the stuff in, I pour in bottles spaced apart with engine running at operating temp with chassis heat pump on. For subsequent ph testing I wait until I run the bus around a bit to circulate coolant.
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  #3  
Old 05-28-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f.wernlein View Post
I get my additive from NAPA...can't recall the specific name/part number - but they got it.

They also sell the test strips...but as I recall...in a kit of like 50 (#4107)...so I just borrowed some ph testing strips from a science teacher where I work.

It takes several bottles of additive to make any real ph change in the large cooling system in an FC, you have the main engine loop as well as the heating loop for the chassis heat/hot water heater.

In adding the stuff in, I pour in bottles spaced apart with engine running at operating temp with chassis heat pump on. For subsequent ph testing I wait until I run the bus around a bit to circulate coolant.

Here is what you need, make note of the color of antifreeze;



Part Number:


4056
UPC Number:
765809154216
Principal Application:
Liquid Cooling System Treatment (One Pint) to be used w/ traditional (green) antifreezes
</B>
All Applications
Style:
Radiator Liquid Cooling Treatment
Service:
Coolant
Attached Thumbnails
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I'M SO SLOW ON THE HILLS,THAT I GET TO SMELL THE FLOWERS AS I GO BY.....AND WATCH THEM GROW TOO!! NOT SO MUCH ANYMORE
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  #4  
Old 05-28-2011
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NH Bill NH Bill is offline
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Feet Pride sells individual test strips and in 3-packs. Watch the dates.

Fleet Guard also has good coolant additives. Follow the link below.

http://www.fleetguard.com/html/en/pr.../supp_add.html

NH Bill
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  #5  
Old 05-28-2011
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Here is a good thread to read and one of the many posts;

Wanderlodge Owners Group > Mechanic's Corner > Engine > Cavitation and SCA's in Diesel Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamflagman View Post


"An electrical short in a vehicle takes the path of least resistance to ground," says Nelson, "and often that's through the cooling system. In this instance, the electrical current passing through the coolant so quickly depleted the nitrite additive in the antifreeze, that the sleeves no longer had protection against cavitation. When coolant analysis shows a rapid depletion of nitrite, coupled with an increase in nitrates, it's always a red flag for an electrical short."

Read more at;

http://www.buyerzone.com/construction/rbic-diesel-engine-coolant.html




This photograph shows Cavitation on the coolant side of a cylinder liner. Cavitation in this context is caused by the repeated collapse of vapour (gas) bubbles in the coolant fluid. During engine operation, water vapour bubbles continuously form and collapse on the sides of the liner. As the bubbles collapse, extremely high pressures-as high as 15,000 atmospheres, can occur momentarily, eroding the material. The problem can be mitigated to some extent by applying a thicker chrome layer over the surface of the liner at the time of manufacturer and good management of the engine coolant.
http://www.prosolve.co.nz/Our+Services/Forensic+Engineering.html





UNDERSTANDING CAVITATION

In elastic media such as air and in most solids, there is a continuous transition as a sound wave is transmitted. In non-elastic media such as water and in most liquids, there is continuous transition as long as the amplitude or "loudness" of the sound is relatively low. As amplitude is increased, however, the magnitude of the negative pressure in the areas of rarefaction (pockets of low pressure) eventually becomes sufficient to cause the liquid to fracture, causing a phenomenon known as cavitation.
Cavitation bubbles are created at sites of low pressure as the liquid fractures or tears because of the negative pressure of the sound waves in the liquid. As the wave fronts pass, the cavitation bubbles oscillate under the influence of positive pressure, eventually growing to an unstable size. Finally, the violent collapse of the cavitation bubbles results in implosions, which cause shock waves to be radiated from the sites of the collapse. The collapse and implosion of myriad cavitation bubbles throughout an ultrasonically activated liquid result in the effect commonly associated with ultrasonics. It has been calculated that temperatures in excess of 10,000̊F and pressures in excess of 10,000 psi are generated at the implosion sites of cavitation bubbles.


MORE ON SUPPLEMENTAL COOLANT ADDITIVES

Supplemental coolant additives (SCAs) expand the protection abilities of the coolant in terms of both time and amount. Over time, however, the concentration of SCAs will gradually deplete during normal engine operation. Although SCAs provide protection for the cooling system components, it's just as important that the coolant have them in proper concentration.
The proper application of SCAs will provide:

• PH control to prevent corrosion
• Water-softening to deter formation of mineral deposits
• Cavitation protection to reduce the effects of cavitation

Read more at;

http://www.arrowheadradiator.com/cavitation,_scas_and_the_proper_maintenance_of_die sel_engine_cooling_systems.htm


http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/downloads/ > CAVITATION AND SCAs.pdf
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JOHN FINN
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1982 FC35RB
I'm NO EXPERT, but I did stay in the FINN'S INN EXPRESS last night
HOPKINS, SOUTH CAROLINA
VISIT THE FINN'S INN EXPRESS REMODELING ADVENTURE AND TECH. TIPS
I'M SO SLOW ON THE HILLS,THAT I GET TO SMELL THE FLOWERS AS I GO BY.....AND WATCH THEM GROW TOO!! NOT SO MUCH ANYMORE
Visit the WILD HARE RACING website
REMEMBER 9/11
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  #6  
Old 05-28-2011
rrueckwald rrueckwald is offline
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So if you drain a little antifreeze from the radiator and test it, and find a pH needing adjustment, how do you add the additive? I can only add it to the reservoir tank, but that isn't going to make it into the system as there is very little circulation, if any, just some expansion and contraction of the fluid. Judging by the level sight glass, not much of that, either. Comments? Are we kidding ourselves?
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  #7  
Old 05-28-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrueckwald View Post
So if you drain a little antifreeze from the radiator and test it, and find a pH needing adjustment, how do you add the additive? I can only add it to the reservoir tank, but that isn't going to make it into the system as there is very little circulation, if any, just some expansion and contraction of the fluid. Judging by the level sight glass, not much of that, either. Comments? Are we kidding ourselves?
\ Ron,theres more circulation in the surge tank than you think.
Theres a 1'' hose that goes down to the lower radiator hose,and a small one that goes somewhere.
All ypu have to do to prove this to yourself is to add the Nalcool to the tank,you can see the red in the sight glass,run the engine and watch it turn green.
I suspect it will take an hours run time to get it completely mixed in the system.
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  #8  
Old 05-29-2011
AC7880 AC7880 is offline
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Does the Detroit have a coolant filter? On the Cummins C8.3, we have a coolant filter, and you can purchase filters with varying pre-loads of additive in them.

I have on occasion also drained some coolant from the rad petcock into a clean container, then put liquid additive back into the system from the top, and putting the coolant from the container back in after that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrueckwald View Post
So if you drain a little antifreeze from the radiator and test it, and find a pH needing adjustment, how do you add the additive? I can only add it to the reservoir tank, but that isn't going to make it into the system as there is very little circulation, if any, just some expansion and contraction of the fluid. Judging by the level sight glass, not much of that, either. Comments? Are we kidding ourselves?
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  #9  
Old 05-29-2011
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Bill Pape Bill Pape is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrueckwald View Post
So if you drain a little antifreeze from the radiator and test it, and find a pH needing adjustment, how do you add the additive? I can only add it to the reservoir tank, but that isn't going to make it into the system as there is very little circulation, if any, just some expansion and contraction of the fluid. Judging by the level sight glass, not much of that, either. Comments? Are we kidding ourselves?
Ron,
No need to drain coolant , use an alligator clip, hemostat (medical term) or roach clip ( old hippy term).
Reach into the reservoir with the test strip & clip. Add SCA if needed.
Usually someone has test strips at a Rally, that are near the expiration date.
We have tested many Birds at Rallies.
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  #10  
Old 05-29-2011
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Randy Dupree Randy Dupree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Pape View Post
Ron,
No need to drain coolant , use an alligator clip, hemostat (medical term) or roach clip ( old hippy term).
Reach into the reservoir with the test strip & clip. Add SCA if needed.
Usually someone has test strips at a Rally, that are near the expiration date.
We have tested many Birds at Rallies.

test strips and roach clips,sounds like a rock band!
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