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Engine Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's engine.

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  #1  
Old 11-15-2008
Randy Dupree's Avatar
Randy Dupree Randy Dupree is online now
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Default 6V92,8V92 to series 60 engines

as some of you know i bought my first bird 20 years ago.
it was a 6V92 in a 40PT.
The speed limit back back then was 55MPH,so a coach with a top speed of 73 was fast in those days.
the year was 1989.

The 6V92 was a little underpowered at 325HP,but there were very few birds in those days with the 8V92,so i was happy (kinda!).
in the back of my mind was the power of an 8V92....

sometime around 1998 or so i bought a 93WB with a 500HP 8V92.
Can you say POWER!
WOW,what a change!
and by then the speed limit was 70MPH on the interstates!
The big difference was climbing hills,you didnt have to take advantage of every down hill to go uphill.
at the end of the day i was not nearly as tired,i could pass slow traffic easier,i didnt have to DRIVE as hard.
in those days we drove 700 miles or more,everyday.

i drove both of those coachs for 100,000 miles or so.

a few months ago i bought a 95WB with the series 60 engine,i always wanted an S60,but i was never happy with the floor plans of the 95-97 coachs.
the 95 had a few things we really liked better than the 93,we like the bed to be a center island,instead of a cross bed like the 93 had,we also like the BB windows,instead of the hehr windows,we like to open the windows when we can,and the BB window has a bigger opening.
Back to the engine,the S60 is 470HP,30HP less than the 8V92.
the S60 has a 6 speed tranny,the 8V has a 5 speed.
ok,heres the performance report.
the 60 takes off way faster than the 8V,i think its because of the lower rearend ratio.
overall speed seems to be about the same.
the 60 holds its speed better on the small hills we have in Fl and Ga.
i've only driven the 95 around 1500 miles,not enough to really get a feel for it yet.
we do like the coach,but so far its more than just the engine we like!

i'll keep you advised!
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Randy Dupree
2000 LXI 43
Bainbridge,Ga.
Archer Fl.
www.buybyebluebird.com

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  #2  
Old 11-16-2008
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Randy,

Me giving you advise on your coach is like me telling granny how to cook eggs.

I can say this, once you start on the maintenance cycle of changing all the fluids try synthetics in everything.

It made a BIG difference in my PT42. Better MPG, Smoother acceleration, it just runs better. The Allison also runs smoother and shifts cleaner, Genny runs a bit cooler and does not strain as bad when it comes under load. It is now in the S-60, Allison, Transaxle, Hubs, Genny.

If I really thought that it would make a difference I'd put it in the Hydraulic system as well.

I'm getting that done in a few weeks. By the way the PT42 takes Texaco/Chevron Rondo HD32, don't make the mistake of using AW30.

In time I think you'll find the PT42 is the best of both worlds, Old Bird Body/Chassie, and the best drivetrain ever built for a bus.

If you get a chance send me those measurements we talked about.

Kurt Horvath
95 PT42
10AC
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  #3  
Old 11-16-2008
davidmbrady
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Glad it's working out for your Randy. The best part for me is the increase in fuel mileage. Wanderlodge made dramatic improvements with each new model year.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC

Last edited by davidmbrady; 11-16-2008 at 02:44 AM.
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  #4  
Old 11-16-2008
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the fuel mileage is being averaged by the pro-driver,i have not reset it since i bought it,its still averaging from the trip down from chicago,6.30 MPG,including idle time etc.
i have to get into the pro-driver and figure it out..
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2000 LXI 43
Bainbridge,Ga.
Archer Fl.
www.buybyebluebird.com

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  #5  
Old 11-16-2008
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That's impressive. My coach had an avg. under 5 MPG, until I started working on improving it’s MPG. I have seen 7.9 MPG on the Silverleaf on two 50 mile test runs @ 60 MPH, last May.

It’s now averaging about what your seeing in your coach, but I haven’t been trying to conserve, on a fast run 70 MPH +, avg. - 6 MPG

I really think that heat in the engine compartment is a large factor in efficiency.

The new Stainless Steel Exhaust from Dupree Products with the optional Exhaust Blankets on the manifold, turbo, pipes and on the straight stack. Will keep the heat in the pipes where it belongs and blankets or exhaust tape, on the intake pipes, and to and from the Charge Air Cooler to keep heat out of the intake air.

I decided to replace the turbo as well, the new unit is not wastegated but it's an improved version of the old OEM turbo.

Tire pressure seems to be a factor in MPG performance as well, One for the obvious reasons, the second for better MPG. It's seen that a few lbs. in either direction makes a difference for my coach.

Kurt Horvath
95 PT42
10AC
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  #6  
Old 11-16-2008
davidmbrady
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It's pretty easy for me to get 7.5mpg, including idle time, on my 6000 mile cross country round trips. If your fuel mileage is low, have your valves and injector heights set. This should be done once at around 60,000 miles, and again whenever you notice a decrease in fuel mileage. Owners have reported dramatic mileage improvements after this tune-up. I don't see much correlation between tire pressure and mpg, to see a change you probably have to go to max pressure, which ruins the ride. Peak engine efficiency is between 1450 and 1550 rpm. That's roughly 55 to 65mph in my coach, which is where I try to keep it, but if you're attentive, you can easily run at 75mph w/o ruining your mileage, if you do it like Paul Lazar and I - with a tail wind! With the recent spike in fuel mileage, it's worth experimenting. When in a stiff headwind situation I may back down to 55mph, but I crank her up to 70 plus with a tail wind. I was suffering with 6 mpg for a while till I figured out that my fan was running full speed all the time - I had a blown fuse in the remote engine start panel (I believe it's the one labeled "ignition"). I agree with Kurt on synthetics, I run them every where, but only occasionally in the engine. I do an oil analysis after my cross-country trips and have found that Rotella has higher TBN (Total Base Number, measures the amount of additive remaining) than synthetics after that kind of use. It seems that Rotella lasts longer. Prevost Car in Nashville, Tn uses Rotella in all their S-60's. Lastly, you may want to keep an eye on "engine overspeeds" when the jake is engaged. Many of us had our preselects changed from 4th to 5th due to early downshifts which cause engine rpm's to go to 2350rpm. With 5th as preselect, this never occurs and you're in control (simply use the down arrow to shift when the jake is engaged). S-60's can run a bunch hotter than the 2-strokers.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC
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  #7  
Old 11-16-2008
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David,

I had to put in a new cam and roller bearing on #6 Cyl.. @ 120,000 miles. They of course set the valves and injector height but that was 35,000 miles ago.

In our conversation the other night I told you I had get my new DDEC checked out and have DD look at the Jake. Do you think at this time I should get the valves and injector heights set again. Also thinking about that Allison update for the shift patterns. I remember the posts at the time you guys did that. I think Slim did his to if I’m not mistaken, maybe you could elaborate on that a bit. So I know what to ask for at DD/Allison. That may help in gaining a bit on the MPG

For whatever reason my coach is like the ’83 Ford van I used to have , variance in tire pressure would have effects out of proportion to what you would normally expect. Idulagance is a finicky Lass and once your dialed in she doesn’t complain, but it took a few attempts to find her sweet spot. If you guys can’t extrapolate what gender my coach is for that statement then your short on imagination. L.O.L.

Kurt Horvath
95 PT42
10AC
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  #8  
Old 11-16-2008
davidmbrady
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Kurt,

My owners manual says that the tune-up only needs to be done if you're experiencing a decrease in mpg; it looks like your mpg is pretty decent.

The preselect is a simple parameter change on the Allison transmission. It doesn't require a re-flash of the software version, just a tweak to a parameter. Any Allison dealer can do it - ask to have the preselect changed from 4th to 5th. You know that your transmission is currently selecting 4 by engaging your jake and looking at the Allison pushbutton control panel. If it immediately displays 4th then 4th is preselected. After changing the parameter to 5th, 5 will display when the jake is engaged. To get it into 4th, I wait for the appropriate rpm and hit the down arrow.

We also talked about the transmission "hunting" for the correct gear on ascents. Mine was cured of this problem by reflashing the software with a later version. I'm now running software version 0F00ABF005N in my 4060HD transmission. This allows me to go up a hill in either "performance" or "economy" mode and when a downshift is made, the transmission stays there.

The software version number breaks down as follows:
0F00: software major number
ABF: series 4000 transmission
005N: software minor number

WRT tire pressures and mileage, maybe it has to do with the tire. I think you're running 12R's. I run 315's. I don't see any appreciable difference.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC
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  #9  
Old 11-16-2008
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David,

My mileage increases were attained after I changed over to synthetic fluids. Nothing else was done to bump up the MPG from 5 to an Avg. 6.3 to 6.7 .

When I asked about the valve adjustment when the cam install was done the answer given did not instill much confidence.

In my efforts to get the Jake fixed I stopped at Albany DD in Albany Ga. BB sends a lot of work their way. and recommended by my BB Guru. They could not determine the Jake condition but said that the valves may need adjustment. I didn’t do it at that time because it was only a few months after the cam job.

When I go to DD for the Allison and DDEC work I’ll get them to check it out.

Kurt Horvath
95 PT 42
10AC
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  #10  
Old 11-16-2008
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Thanks Randy,

This is good info
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