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Engine Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's engine.

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  #11  
Old 08-13-2009
Randy Dupree's Avatar
Randy Dupree Randy Dupree is online now
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price on the CAC?
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Randy Dupree
2000 LXI 43
Bainbridge,Ga.
Archer Fl.
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  #12  
Old 08-13-2009
Paul Paul is offline
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Don't have a price yet, should know more tomorrow and then will head home sans Ziggy.

Steve got his CAC from BB for $1400 they owed him right at bankruptcy time.
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  #13  
Old 08-14-2009
fxdwg fxdwg is offline
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Here's Quality's site: http://www.qst-corp.com/


I'll bet they made the oil coolers too. They've got some interesting stuff!
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don't waste your time with a usa-spec ipod adapter- poor products with poor support
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  #14  
Old 08-15-2009
saraga saraga is offline
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Default 1997 charge air cooler & radiator source

I spoke to Paul yesterday and gave him all this info, but just in case...

The Mrf who supplied the radiator and charge air cooler to Blue Bird, for at least the 97 with the series 60, is Quality Stamping & Tube

262-677-5100
JERRY ENG. MANAGER

P/N 10-524A RADIATOR AND CHARGE AIR COOLER PACKAGE

P/N 10-524CA CHARGE AIR COOLER ONLY

Mine failed on a trip through Chattanooga, TN.

It split in a very large way. No boost at all. You can continue to drive the coach, but you will have very limited power, so no hills.

Keep the turbo temp minimal, or avoid smoke out the exhaust. I drove mine about 30 to 35 miles to the repair shop, weeks after I was back home after a tow from Chattanooga (almost $1,000.00)

I got lucky, after some phone calls, I discovered Bird parts had one left, and of course they were still around.

When my failed unit was removed, I discovered a part ID tag that had all the data needed to contact the Mfr and verify they were the original Mfr and would supply coolers to us as needed.

They do not stock them, but they can build replacements to the original spec's.
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  #15  
Old 08-15-2009
parris001 parris001 is offline
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Here's what I'm proposing to the Bluebird group here. The radiators, charge air coolers, and air conditioning condenser are all becoming obsolete. And I'm not so sure how structurally sound the entire assembly was from the beginning because Paul's charge air cooler broke loose both end tanks from the core assembly, where the failure typically only happens at the joint where the incoming tank meets the core. Both tanks coming loose tells me the failure was more of a structural failure versus a rapid temperature difference failure.

I would like to use a guinea pig with the goal of mounting a Prevost radiator and charge air cooler in a Bluebird like Paul's. It looks like there's enough room in all the right places and once the conversion is done you'll never have a structure related failure again! PLUS we'll be able to do away with the hydraulic driven fan and just use three little ol' belts instead of.......... that much more complex system. It's going to free up a ton of horsepower too to go to a mechanically driven fan with electric clutch controls. The first conversion will be troublesome but if we well document it (as we do in situations like this) we'll be able to do the following victims much more efficiently.

Think about it.............. We've taken on crazy projects like this before in the Nashville branch and I think that challenges like this help grow my tech's ability to think and they come out better for it.
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  #16  
Old 08-15-2009
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Jeff,what would the belts drive off of?
and about how many dollars would this be?
The rad and the CAC I'm sure you can price,the labor will be a different thing,so just A SWAG is good.
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  #17  
Old 08-15-2009
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Jeff,can we get some pics of Pauls CAC,and a few of a prevost CAC?
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  #18  
Old 08-15-2009
parris001 parris001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Dupree View Post
Jeff,what would the belts drive off of?
and about how many dollars would this be?
The rad and the CAC I'm sure you can price,the labor will be a different thing,so just A SWAG is good.
The belts would drive off of the crank pulley. We use a 90 degree gearbox to change the direction of the drive to the fan itself.

We would have to do one and get it under our belt before we could quote a labor price. Best initial guess is going to be 50 hours labor. This will be to essentially add everything from the engine cradle (or in your case frame rails) to the roadside of the coach in order to facilitate the addition of the Prevost hardware. This may mean actually ordering the structural pieces from Prevost, or fabricating it ourselves if that ends up being cost prohibitive (likely to be that case).

I've got the Service Manager getting me the price on what we call our Entertainer Chassis radiator and charge-air-cooler assemblies. These would likely work best in this application.

Losing the hydraulic driven fan would be a massive improvement. Eagle Model 15s never had a lot of luck with it, and with Bluebird having to use it as an evaporator fan for the A/C............. not an ideal situation. The Prevost fan clutch actually utilizes 2 fan speeds so that in low demand situations you're not sapping so much horsepower just to cool the engine off a little bit. And the PTO driven pump Bluebird uses to run the system..........hmmmmmmm?? Way more difficult than it needs to be.

Everybody throw a few bucks Paul's way and we'll make his the prototype.
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  #19  
Old 08-15-2009
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peteaeonix peteaeonix is offline
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On my maiden trip with my coach, I noticed a "slight" heating problem as I crossed Kansas toward Denver on I-70 -- the temperature ran at 190-200 most of the time, but there were no serious hills, just the relatively gradual climb across the plains.

After leaving Denver, via I-25 to I-80 (to head west across the Rockies) there were similar temperature readings -- but the relatively mild May weather wasn't much of a factor.

When I got to Nevada, however, it was hot outside -- and there are several long grades west of Wendover enroute to Elko that caused me to have to frequently pull off and cool down.

When I got the coach home, the first thing I did was make an appointment with a heavy duty radiator shop -- one that has a contract with a local transit agency to do radiator work on their busses.

We pulled out the CAC and Radiator (and everything else in that section) -- and found the radiator was completely clogged with oily dirt outside the area swept by the fan. This blockage was very difficult to detect since the CAC is on the outside -- so it blocks the view of the radiator (and it does not collect the oily-dirt like the radiator). Shrouds and the AC condenser block the view from the inside -- so shining a flashlight from the outside only clearly shows the fan-swept area (which does not clog).

The shop could clean and re-install the radiator -- but I decided to spend extra for a new radiator core. With the advice of the radiator shop owner, we selected a type used by the local transit district -- it has round coolant tubes, arrayed in a staggered pattern, that is supposed to be more efficient at cooling. (It was the "latest" design, according to the shop owner -- and it cost about the same as the direct replacement "old" design.)

I note, that in the SF Bay Area, the labor costs of R&R the radiator, CAC, etc. was the most significant part of the bill -- and was more than twice the cost of the new radiator core. (About $800 in 2005.)

The CAC was inspected while it was out of the coach -- and apparently had no visible defects.

In the 23,000 miles of travel we've done since the radiator core replacement, the water temperature holds at 180 and only occasionally moves up to 190 on steep grades, etc. I've steam cleaned or pressure washed the radiator annually to avoid build up of that nasty oily-dirt.

So, while working on a radiator/CAC assembly, I do suggest consideration of the radiator design -- is it the current "best technology"
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  #20  
Old 08-15-2009
parris001 parris001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peteaeonix View Post
.........I've steam cleaned or pressure washed the radiator annually to avoid build up of that nasty oily-dirt.

So, while working on a radiator/CAC assembly, I do suggest consideration of the radiator design -- is it the current "best technology"
I have never seen one of out assemblies clog with dirt/debris. Both assemblies come from Valeo which is a very reputable and quality vendor.

I think the reason we don't plug is that we move such a large volume of air. The flow is too great for the dirt to have a chance to get stuck.
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