Wanderlodge Owners Group  
BuyByeBlueBird.com
WOG Gear

Go Back   Wanderlodge Owners Group > Mechanic's Corner > Engine

Engine Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's engine.

Site Search:
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 12-13-2010
Crit Bliss's Avatar
Crit Bliss Crit Bliss is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cape Cod
Posts: 3,640
Default

Peanut oil has a much higher smoke point
__________________
Crit Bliss
'80FC33
250T
Cape Cod,ma
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-13-2010
Rick's Avatar
Rick Rick is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bellefonte
Posts: 12,686
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo View Post
I have a question about diesel #2 vs diesel #1 and could not find the answer in a search (although it has been discussed-I think).

In summer they sell #2 and winter it's more like #1, correct?

Which one gives you more get up and go?

Do states like NM change when winter temps approach?

Thanks for your input!
#1 has higher cetane rating and is lighter (thinner).
__________________
Rick Shawver
1SG Ret
2000 LX
Vise Grips
Bellefonte, AR
F127656
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-13-2010
rwoody's Avatar
rwoody rwoody is online now
ANOTHER REDNECK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pleasanton
Posts: 5,458
Default

the thicker heavy fuel (#2) has more power
heck if you can flow motor oil it will burn~ and have good power

the bio diesel boys heat the fuel all night to run it and veg oil in the winter

the #1 is lighter and dont get the power or fuel miles per gal but will flow at lower temps
__________________
RWoody
2003 LX Single Slide Hauling Wood 5
2 miles east from Texas Highway 37-97
Just a Hobby Shop now-Bird Repairs upon Appt and my Schedule -USAR Retired
Pleasanton Tx 78064
Do not use PM... please use
rwoody@fullnet.net
http://www.ebay.com/usr/woody19571

Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-06-2011
Trawlercap Trawlercap is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cannon Beach
Posts: 344
Default Cetane ratings and mileage

I am a stone cold newbie here, so I apologize a head if this has been discussed already.

I did a search, and did not find a thread covering cetane.I also belong to a group of mileage fanatics in a VW TDI group. I have learned a lot about how to get improved mileage out of our little 1.9 liter diesels.

Below is a copy and paste of a sticky on that site. (fredstdiclub.com) I thought It would be of interest to the forum here. I hope I have not broken any rules!

I plan to tow my Jetta TDI when I get my first Bird, so I guess this qualifies as a discussion about my vehicle....:-)



Run a good quality fuel. In the west Chevron seems to by far bring the best numbers. A poor quality fuel will lower MPG by up to 5. Just because it's a truck stop it usually means you are putting **** in your tank (especially Flying J). In the Midwest BP/Amoco are great--both BP and Chevron have stated that they won't have Cetane under 49, which is what our cars need. If you're filling with ****** fuel run an additive. Anything up to B20 won't really have an effect on your mileage. B100 will lower it by ~5 MPG. These numbers are taken with over 300,000 miles of careful calculations over the course of many years, different cars, and different seasons.
Example: If you get 40 MPG from Flying J at $4.25/gallon, and 45 MPG from Chevron/BP at $4.49/gallon, you are paying $.10625/mile with the J, and $.09978/mile with the higher quality fuel. (And if you find a quality station next to a truck stop often the difference in price is less than $.05/gallon!) You actually save $64 just in fuel over the course of 10,000 miles by buying the more expensive fuel. This says nothing for what you might save in maintenance (injection pump and the rest of the fuel system) over the course of time. Just because it's expensive doesn't mean it's good. I've called lots of corporate offices and have numbers on the following cetane levels*** (See end of post)

Most truck stops are going to be low numbers because most semi's don't care what cetane they are running.

***Cetane levels by fuel company. To ensure accuracy if you have a level to add to the list please forward an email from a corporate office to me, and I will add it to the list. Please bear in mind that the current minimum from refiners in North America is 40. Depending on the quality of the oil used as well as refining processes you'll find 40-42 from refiners in the US and Canada. Anything above that has to do with specific companies additive packages. When companies give a minimum value then it will be listed as a single number. When a company gives a range of numbers bear in mind that more often than not you'll probably find the lower number rather than the higher number. If 40 is listed then it generally means that fuel is bought as is from the refiner--if someone messes up and doesn't put in enough additive at the refinery then that can cause major problems for your fuel system. It's recommended therefore that if you get the inexpensive fuel with low cetane you use a cetane booster (PowerService, Lubromoly Cetane booster or Stanadyne are all great choices), or run a little biodiesel in the tank. NOTE: If you have a 2009 Common rail diesel or later do not run additives in the tank! If something higher than 42 is listed then the retailer adds their own additive package in addition to the standard refinery additive package. Generally speaking as long as 49 or higher is listed you do not need to worry about adding any additives yourself.

BP (Amoco branded), 51;
Chevron, 49; or 51 with Techron D labels in select markets
ConocoPhillips through the 76 stations (California) 47-53
PetroCanada, 47-51
BP (Powerblend 47, otherwise 40-42)
Shell, 46;
Sinclair, 46;
Sunoco Gold, 45 (often +1-5) Sunoco regular is usually 40.
Exxon/Mobile, 43-46
Holiday Stations, 40-43
HESS, 40-42, can be up to 45.
Husky, 40 + diesel Max additives raise another 1-3 from there (41-45 max)
Love's: 40
Pilot: 40
Valero: 40
Sheetz: 40
Flying J, 40
__________________
Capt Jack Molan
Author "You Can't Make This Stuff Up"
My Thirty years as Captain in the Bering Sea
[url]http://a.co/jj5lIUw[/url]
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-06-2011
irmagoo's Avatar
irmagoo irmagoo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: washington
Posts: 2,468
Default

good-morning jack
there is one amoco in my area that i may and i say may be able to get my 40ft. coach into for fuel... so i go to truck stop out on hi-way 15 miles away to fuel up before leaving town. we have ranger pick up(toad) we pull on road. we only go to truck stops unless its clear to us that we can drive through a station. it's a ordeal to unhook truck to back out of some tight space that i've got into! so thats how i look at it- may need to use additive's ?? mike
__________________
mike mcgraugh
2003 LXI
"Blacktop Gyspy"
even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile
washington Il.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-06-2011
Christian's Avatar
Christian Christian is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: St Louis
Posts: 841
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trawlercap View Post
I am a stone cold newbie here, so I apologize a head if this has been discussed already.

I did a search, and did not find a thread covering cetane.I also belong to a group of mileage fanatics in a VW TDI group. I have learned a lot about how to get improved mileage out of our little 1.9 liter diesels.

Below is a copy and paste of a sticky on that site. (fredstdiclub.com) I thought It would be of interest to the forum here. I hope I have not broken any rules!

I plan to tow my Jetta TDI when I get my first Bird, so I guess this qualifies as a discussion about my vehicle....:-)



Run a good quality fuel. In the west Chevron seems to by far bring the best numbers. A poor quality fuel will lower MPG by up to 5. Just because it's a truck stop it usually means you are putting **** in your tank (especially Flying J). In the Midwest BP/Amoco are great--both BP and Chevron have stated that they won't have Cetane under 49, which is what our cars need. If you're filling with ****** fuel run an additive. Anything up to B20 won't really have an effect on your mileage. B100 will lower it by ~5 MPG. These numbers are taken with over 300,000 miles of careful calculations over the course of many years, different cars, and different seasons.
Example: If you get 40 MPG from Flying J at $4.25/gallon, and 45 MPG from Chevron/BP at $4.49/gallon, you are paying $.10625/mile with the J, and $.09978/mile with the higher quality fuel. (And if you find a quality station next to a truck stop often the difference in price is less than $.05/gallon!) You actually save $64 just in fuel over the course of 10,000 miles by buying the more expensive fuel. This says nothing for what you might save in maintenance (injection pump and the rest of the fuel system) over the course of time. Just because it's expensive doesn't mean it's good. I've called lots of corporate offices and have numbers on the following cetane levels*** (See end of post)

Most truck stops are going to be low numbers because most semi's don't care what cetane they are running.

***Cetane levels by fuel company. To ensure accuracy if you have a level to add to the list please forward an email from a corporate office to me, and I will add it to the list. Please bear in mind that the current minimum from refiners in North America is 40. Depending on the quality of the oil used as well as refining processes you'll find 40-42 from refiners in the US and Canada. Anything above that has to do with specific companies additive packages. When companies give a minimum value then it will be listed as a single number. When a company gives a range of numbers bear in mind that more often than not you'll probably find the lower number rather than the higher number. If 40 is listed then it generally means that fuel is bought as is from the refiner--if someone messes up and doesn't put in enough additive at the refinery then that can cause major problems for your fuel system. It's recommended therefore that if you get the inexpensive fuel with low cetane you use a cetane booster (PowerService, Lubromoly Cetane booster or Stanadyne are all great choices), or run a little biodiesel in the tank. NOTE: If you have a 2009 Common rail diesel or later do not run additives in the tank! If something higher than 42 is listed then the retailer adds their own additive package in addition to the standard refinery additive package. Generally speaking as long as 49 or higher is listed you do not need to worry about adding any additives yourself.

BP (Amoco branded), 51;
Chevron, 49; or 51 with Techron D labels in select markets
ConocoPhillips through the 76 stations (California) 47-53
PetroCanada, 47-51
BP (Powerblend 47, otherwise 40-42)
Shell, 46;
Sinclair, 46;
Sunoco Gold, 45 (often +1-5) Sunoco regular is usually 40.
Exxon/Mobile, 43-46
Holiday Stations, 40-43
HESS, 40-42, can be up to 45.
Husky, 40 + diesel Max additives raise another 1-3 from there (41-45 max)
Love's: 40
Pilot: 40
Valero: 40
Sheetz: 40
Flying J, 40
Very nice Captain Your comments and suggestions are always welcome.
I like all of the info. If the big trucks don't care about cetane they don't care about mileage? Many of our motors are the same as semi's...
Seems they would want to save money... or mabe too hard to figure out where the good stuff is.

Question, If I installed a turbocharger but did not turn up the fuel... I presume the burn would be more lean? Would I get better miles per gallon?
__________________
Richard Christian
St. Louis
FC35SB 1982
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-06-2011
JD33's Avatar
JD33 JD33 is offline
prone to wandering
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Perth, ON
Posts: 2,223
Default

FYI. there was a thread on here a few weeks ago regarding lubricity additives. The thread linked to an independent lab test of most common additives for lubricity, cetane boost and anti gel properties. I am sure that someone will chime in here with a reference to locating that thread. It was interesting to note that of the popular additives, Power Service and Howes were among the poorest. Schaeffer was one of the best. In our fleet of highway trucks we use Power Service and Howes presently but plan to try Schaeffer Diesel Treat and see how it works out. I also read a bunch of stuff on the "bob the oil guy" forum and it seems to be a top product. Another nice thing about Schaeffer is that it comes in pint cans that treat 150 gal, rather than in gallons.
__________________
Jim Doel
Birdless for the first time in many years!
Do not send PM
jimdoel@me.com
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-06-2011
iamflagman's Avatar
iamflagman iamflagman is offline
(1943-2018) Forum Co-founder/Administrator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hopkins
Posts: 11,506
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JD33 View Post
FYI. there was a thread on here a few weeks ago regarding lubricity additives. The thread linked to an independent lab test of most common additives for lubricity, cetane boost and anti gel properties. I am sure that someone will chime in here with a reference to locating that thread. It was interesting to note that of the popular additives, Power Service and Howes were among the poorest. Schaeffer was one of the best. In our fleet of highway trucks we use Power Service and Howes presently but plan to try Schaeffer Diesel Treat and see how it works out. I also read a bunch of stuff on the "bob the oil guy" forum and it seems to be a top product. Another nice thing about Schaeffer is that it comes in pint cans that treat 150 gal, rather than in gallons.
Here it is;

Wanderlodge Owners Group > Mechanic's Corner > Engine > Modern Fuel

I'm a long time VW Diesel fan, I had two of the first VW Diesel Rabbits in the Midwest and used them for my old Flag Car business one of them I put a Shelby - Sperco Turbo on before they did that from the factory, I sold one of them back to the dealer with over 300,000 miles on it, that he repainted and gave to his kid to drive back and forth to school. I currently have three Rabbits one that I carry in the trailer behind the 'Bird and one that I race and one for parts, but now they are all gas.

I know for me that the fuel price and gaining easy access to the diesel pumps in my 'Bird is the #1 priority, so unfortunately for me that means Flying J, some of the newer Pilots with an RV accessible pump and Murphy stations at Wal Marts.

I really don't think that with the mileage that I get with my 'Bird that the cetane ratings will make much of a difference in the mileage on my 'Bird at least not enough that would offset the increased prices that would probably go along with it.

It is just like I overheard a sales man at Buddy Gregg's say to a shopper when he asked "What kind of GAS mileage do you get with these Busses?................the reply was..................."If you have to ask that.........you can't afford them". In comparison to my VW's I get TERRIBLE mileage with the 'Bird, but I will still use it because I'm enjoying the lifestyle.
__________________

JOHN FINN
FORUM MODERATOR-ADMINISTRATOR
1982 FC35RB
I'm NO EXPERT, but I did stay in the FINN'S INN EXPRESS last night
HOPKINS, SOUTH CAROLINA
VISIT THE FINN'S INN EXPRESS REMODELING ADVENTURE AND TECH. TIPS
I'M SO SLOW ON THE HILLS,THAT I GET TO SMELL THE FLOWERS AS I GO BY.....AND WATCH THEM GROW TOO!! NOT SO MUCH ANYMORE
Visit the WILD HARE RACING website
REMEMBER 9/11
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-06-2011
Trawlercap Trawlercap is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cannon Beach
Posts: 344
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian View Post
Very nice Captain Your comments and suggestions are always welcome.
I like all of the info. If the big trucks don't care about cetane they don't care about mileage? Many of our motors are the same as semi's...
Seems they would want to save money... or mabe too hard to figure out where the good stuff is.

Question, If I installed a turbocharger but did not turn up the fuel... I presume the burn would be more lean? Would I get better miles per gallon?
Christian, again I have no experience with big onroad diesels. It has been my experience that a higher horsepower, run with efficiency in mind, will deliver better mileage than a smaller unit run hard, on a work boat.

In my work, I drive 123' Steel trawler, and we have a 1800 HP (cat V-16) with a new generation prop. We can run at 1/2 throttle now and get close to the same speed that used to take 95% with a 1100 HP engine and old prop.

The TDI guys "chip" their cars, and add bigger turbos, and funny enough, if they drive them tame, they have increase in mileage.

So my question to the big rig guys, I would suspect the computerized engines are more efficient. But have you noticed any better costs of running a higher HP rig over a lower HP rig? It is a piece of info I am lacking and I am curious about it. It is counter intuitive, but I think my real world experience has convinced me in some situations to be true.

The reality is like so many have already said, if ya can't get in the station, what good is it going to do you? And if you gain 5% (I think the TDI guys are talking 10%)...well the math is not hard to do. If the price is 5% higher...it don't pencil to make the efforts maybe.
__________________
Capt Jack Molan
Author "You Can't Make This Stuff Up"
My Thirty years as Captain in the Bering Sea
[url]http://a.co/jj5lIUw[/url]
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-06-2011
iamflagman's Avatar
iamflagman iamflagman is offline
(1943-2018) Forum Co-founder/Administrator
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hopkins
Posts: 11,506
Default

I am combining this thread with the one about Modern Fuels and changing the title of the combined threads to;

Wanderlodge Owners Group > Mechanic's Corner > Engine > Modern Fuel / Additives / Cetane ratings and mileage
__________________

JOHN FINN
FORUM MODERATOR-ADMINISTRATOR
1982 FC35RB
I'm NO EXPERT, but I did stay in the FINN'S INN EXPRESS last night
HOPKINS, SOUTH CAROLINA
VISIT THE FINN'S INN EXPRESS REMODELING ADVENTURE AND TECH. TIPS
I'M SO SLOW ON THE HILLS,THAT I GET TO SMELL THE FLOWERS AS I GO BY.....AND WATCH THEM GROW TOO!! NOT SO MUCH ANYMORE
Visit the WILD HARE RACING website
REMEMBER 9/11
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vintage and Modern Concept Buses NH Bill Under The Awning 12 01-19-2015 12:14 PM
Diesel Fired Heaters (chassis heat)-Classic lines/modern change gcyeaw HVAC, Air Conditioners, Aqua Hot, Primus, Webasto, Chassis Heaters, Furnaces and Water Heaters 110 11-01-2011 05:26 AM
Fuel Tank access on early PT / troubleshooting fuel gauge DW SD PT & WB (Twin Axle Pusher Unique Issues) 29 05-11-2011 10:18 AM
Repairing Fuel low and fuel contamination sensors. Bob Johannesen 'Bird Projects & Modifications 8 10-18-2010 05:38 AM
What do you do to conserve fuel and get better fuel mileage iamflagman Travel Tips - Fuel Prices 25 08-25-2008 10:27 PM

Web Search:

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.