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Electrical Discussion of preventative/corrective maintenance and other technical issues regarding your coach's electrical system.

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  #11  
Old 08-29-2009
Dennis Dennis is offline
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Thanks Lloyd. As I understand it from my mechanic the diode is in the circuit board where the in/out buttons are to operate the room. I tried to find the breaker to turn off the power and the manual listed a breaker that was not even on the panel.

Believe me my first thought was just to change the room lock to a simple cable pull; all this electronic technology is an invitation to frustration, expense, etc.

My mechanic Mark will be back on the job Monday. What is a good telephone number to reach you?

Thanks so much for your offer to help.

Dennis
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Dennis Torres
2004 M380
Malibu, California
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  #12  
Old 08-29-2009
davidmbrady
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Originally Posted by lnchaffin View Post
David,

Is a cheap battery charger "converter" a better clean source of 12v power than a good run straight from a battery bank and maybe put a good 12volt Regulator in line that will shut off power at say 11.7 volts?
Lloyd Chaffin
2004 M380
I don't think so, but if you need a regulated 11.7 DC volts, there are far easier ways. At a minimum, you can run from the Chassis batteries and always make sure that either the genny is running or you're plugged into shore power with the dash "aux bat" switch enabled, this is what I do, or you can wire in a voltage regulator.

If you feel compelled to dump the computer controls, you may want to take a look at some of the HWH stuff. It's free of computers. Here's an example of a manual "Lock/Unlock" and "Extend/Retract" control panel and circuitry:

http://www.hwhcorp.com/ml41213.pdf

Last edited by davidmbrady; 08-29-2009 at 12:25 PM.
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  #13  
Old 08-29-2009
lnchaffin lnchaffin is offline
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Dennis,

You can call me anytime on my cell 817-371-3438. I will tell you what I know. Something else about that room lock mechanism. If you ever go to put the room in the "service position" which I have done several times, that lock will almost always get confused and jam the room. You have to take bed apart and move it manually to get things back in sync again.

For your mechanic: This is what is suppose to happen.

120v power is supplied to converter which supplies 12v to computer.
Computer will boot (actually there are TWO CPU's)
Look for PWR & RUN green led's on both CPU's. IF NOT THEY ARE BAD
Several red led's are lit on both cpu's (these are sensor/pick indicators)
NO green led's are lit on any of the 3 motor driver boards above cpu's
This is the static at rest indications.

Now press and hold room OUT button and this is what should happen:
1-CPU picks room seal valve (green led lit on 20psi driver board)
2-CPU waits 10 seconds for seal to deflate (it doesn't know if it does or not)
3-CPU picks lock motor driver (green led lit on lock motor board) motor moves fast
4-Lock motor moves to unlock position and magnet covers reed switch which tells CPU to stop motor (green led on motor driver board goes out AND MOTOR SHOULD STOP)
5-CPU tells room screw motor to move in outward rotation(green led on driver is lit)
6-Room magnet passes on top of reed switch and CPU stops motor (green led off)
7-CPU unpicks seal valve and seal re inflates. (green led on driver is off)

The red indicators change during this process indicating what sensor is picked and what the CPU is picking. The room does not lock in the out position.

The process is kind of the same to bring the room in. The only difference is the driver boards for the 2 motors reverse polarity to the motors and they run in reverse. It is all a logical step progression of "if this sensor is covered then pick motor in this direction till this other sensor is covered. Once that happens then go do this.

Hope this helps,
Lloyd Chaffin
2004 M380
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  #14  
Old 08-29-2009
Dennis Dennis is offline
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Thanks Lloyd I am afraid to ask how you came by all this information; I hope not the hard way. I'll certainly let you know what happens.

Dennis
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Dennis Torres
2004 M380
Malibu, California
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  #15  
Old 08-29-2009
Dennis Dennis is offline
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David,

The HWH system looks simple enough, but I think we would have to add a third switch to inflate/deflate the seal.

Dennis
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2004 M380
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  #16  
Old 08-29-2009
davidmbrady
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Hi Dennis,

My mistake, my HWH panel has a key that, when turned, deflates and inflates the seal. The HWH website has a wealth of information including many circuit diagrams. I have no computers in my slide controls. All functions are carried out by relays, position/limit switches, current sensing poly-fuses, and an occasional LM555 timer. All logic is implemented with ground signals; for example, to implement a 2 input AND function, HWH concatenates 2 relays (in series) with the control signal grounding out the relay coil and "making" a relay contact. The output signal is only TRUE if both relay coils receive a ground input. Very simple.

Last edited by davidmbrady; 08-29-2009 at 07:19 PM.
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  #17  
Old 08-29-2009
Dennis Dennis is offline
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Thanks David. In a macro sense I believe I understand what you are saying, but I am not skilled in such things and would have to get someone who is to do the conversion and by-pass the computer. Did you do the work yourself or find someone to do it and if so, what skill set did you look for electrical, mechanical etc.? About how many hours and about how much money did you spend making the conversion? Is the HWH panel something that can be purchased or just a plan to be followed?

Sorry for all the questions, but while I loved cars and working on cars as a teenager in the 1950s (they were a lot simpler then) I learned that it is just not one of my natural born talents. I am a wax on wax off, inflate the tires, fill and empty tanks etc. Coach owner. I wish I had the skills to do this kind of work.

BTW, as much as I am a big fan of Blue Bird the fact that they did not design the slides with a service switch that would easily permit the slides to retract one inch into the Coach for servicing the seals is beyond understanding; they go flush, but to resess you have to remove the mechanism on both sides of the slide which is about about 6 hours of labor removing and reinstalling.

Thanks,

Dennis
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  #18  
Old 08-29-2009
davidmbrady
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Hi Dennis,

My system is stock. The 1999 thru 2003 LXi's used HWH slide technology: simple electronics and hydraulic actuators. I haven't changed a thing. In my 5 year ownership I've never had a failure other than replacing the slide seal, which I did when I purchased the bus. It's now ready for another seal, which I plan on installing myself. I share your frustration regarding retracting the room sufficiently to replace a seal; the LXi also lacks this simple feature, and pushing the room in on my bus is a major undertaking. I'll be sure to create a picture documentary. If I were you, I'd take the bus over to HWH to get their opinion on possibly re-working the controls. They could certainly use the work, the cost should be reasonable, and they are absolutely qualified to do the work. What I like about HWH is that they don't throw microprocessors at everything. Something as simple as slide controls just doesn't warrant the complexity of clocks, memory, boot procedures, analog to digital conversion etc. If I imagine writing the code for slideout control it would probably be 10 lines: are the locks disengaged, does the pump have pressure, is the slide fully retracted, ok, extend the slide. In this case, where we're not crunching numbers, or running complex algorithms, it's much better to go with a simple circuitry.
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  #19  
Old 08-29-2009
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Randy Dupree Randy Dupree is online now
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I agree with David,HWH can fix it.
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Randy Dupree
2000 LXI 43
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  #20  
Old 08-30-2009
lnchaffin lnchaffin is offline
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David,

Could not agree with you more. When my stupid 4th computer craps out I will buy the beer and we will get together and build a better way!

In your sleep think about this:

Wait for input
Out button depressed
Deflate seal
Pause 10 seconds
Sense seal deflated
Check lock motor position
Move lock motor to open
Watch for lock motor open position switch
When lock open switch closes stop motor
Look for lock motor open switch
When lock motor open switch made start room move motor cloclwise
Watch for room out switch
When room out sensor switch is made stop motor
When room out sensor is made then deflate seal

Piece of cake.

Lloyd Chaffin
2004 M380
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