Wanderlodge Owners Group  
BuyByeBlueBird.com
Donate

Go Back   Wanderlodge Owners Group > Mechanic's Corner > M380 (Unique Issues)

M380 (Unique Issues) If you have a unique issue with your M380 model coach and it can't be answered in one of the other forums here, then this is where you can list it.....list your M380 Parts here too.

Site Search:
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 05-06-2019
DW SD DW SD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Encinitas
Posts: 1,519
Default Bigfoot Repair

Photo of Bigfoot corner leveling motor, pump and reservoir assembly. 4 installed per coach.



I wrote this to Bigfoot this morning:
I have a 2004 Bluebird Wanderlodge. Weighs about 38k lbs. Your Bigfoot system came standard with Auto level. My system is original from what I can tell.

I have a problem in one corner. I’ve checked fluid level and bleed procedure without success.

The right rear corner won’t generate much or any lifting pressure. If in Auto mode, usually, that corner times out, at least if it is to carry any significant weight. (especially if that is the low side or corner).

If after that corner hangs up (times out), I put the system in manual mode, after 3 or 4 attempts, sometimes I can get some lifting pressure from that corner. It is sporadic at best.

The pump runs and I do hear the pitch change a bit when the ram hits ground. My batteries are in great shape and the remaining do their jobs properly.

I have no evidence of external fluid leaks on the rams or @ the pump. The rams are in great condition (chrome is still polished with no pitting.). This is a West Coast, California RV.

On occasion, that same corner will not retract. Usually, I fill the air bags to lighten the load on the jacks before retracting. And have had to re-dump the bags to pressure on that ram to get it moving.

My jack pumps are all housed protected in the storage bays, so they don’t see rain, snow, or other things to foul electrical control solenoids or motor or connections.

Couple questions:
1. Is there a pressure relief in the ram itself that could be bleeding pressure?
2. I tend to think the pump is the issue and planned to replace that pump assembly in that corner. Would you agree?
3. Is it possibly a control system? This would be surprising. since my issues seem to be the same corner and manual control spins the pump motor but only sometimes builds a little lifting pressure.

I provided the detailed info so hopefully I don’t have to throw a bunch of parts at the repair.

Thank you very much,

Doug W.
***************

A few hours later, I heard back:
Good afternoon Doug.

Sounds like you are getting "blow by" either internally in the cylinder (probably not though), or in the valving in the pump. It definitely is NOT the controls by any means.

To know for sure is to get the pump and/or the cylinder pressure tested. The extend side is 2500 psi and the retract is 1000.

In conclusion, my personal opinion is the pump giving you fits...........Clinton, would you agree?

*************
After hearing back, I ordered a hydraulic pressure gauge (0 to 3000 psi) and JIC #4 adapter from Amazon for about $20.

Next, I'll check operating pressures and likely install from DB Electric, a Oildyne type pump used in tilt and trim inboard / outboard marine applications (photos of the unit is identical to what is used by Bigfoot).

Since my motor definitely spins and I have a spare pump motor that came with my coach, I decided to just buy the pump. And I'll swap the old motor and solenoids to the new pump and set it on the existing fluid reservoir.

Supposedly, my new pump operates @ 2500 psi extend and 500 psi retract. There is a photo on the Bigfoot site citing their pump is 2500 psi extend and 1000 psi retract.

The pressures are dictated by the relief valves, which are installed in the outlet ports of the pump. So, I plan to first check the pressures and probably swap the old retract-side relief valve from the old to new.

My gamble is not wanting to spend $580 on a whole new pump assembly from Bigfoot since they don't sell individual parts and a complete mercruiser trim tab pump is about $200 to $300.

The pump - only I bought at dbelectrical.com is $125 shipped: https://www.dbelectrical.com/product...1-trm0027.html

I will update over the coming weeks.

Hope I'm not penny-wise and pound foolish. I do value my time. I don't think it will take long to swap parts over from one pump to the other. Maybe 30 minutes.

Doug
__________________
Doug W.
Encinitas CA
2004 M380
Ex-PT36
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-06-2019
Dc2x4drvr's Avatar
Dc2x4drvr Dc2x4drvr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: JAX Based
Posts: 1,395
Default

Please let us know your results, and pics would be great. I know Van swapped a complete jack assembly, just replacing the valve sounds reasonable.
__________________
Lance & Linda Hall
2004 M380
Body #234
"Smooth Ride"
Full Timing with 2 cats
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-06-2019
DW SD DW SD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Encinitas
Posts: 1,519
Default

Hi Lance,
Will update with pictures.
thanks,
Doug
__________________
Doug W.
Encinitas CA
2004 M380
Ex-PT36
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-06-2019
DW SD DW SD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Encinitas
Posts: 1,519
Default

Some reading about these pumps is here. They show where the pressure relief valves are installed, too. And testing procedures, troubleshooting, etc.

http://www.motooff.ru/assets/files/d...formatsiya.pdf
__________________
Doug W.
Encinitas CA
2004 M380
Ex-PT36
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-01-2019
DW SD DW SD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Encinitas
Posts: 1,519
Default

I removed the Bigfoot pump assembly yesterday. The pump outlets were different. The old sealed with an o-ring and the new with small pipe thread.
I went by the hot rod shop to pick up some AN adapters. The outlet is JIC-4 male which is the same as AN-4. The adapters were $7.50 each.
With limited time, I chose to remove the assembly vs. attach the pressure gauge I assembled from Amazon. I know I wasn't building lifting pressure.

I'll snap some photos today.

I'm debating on swapping the pressure relief valves between the pumps. BIGFOOT says their retract pressures are 1000 psi. Specs for this pump are 500 PSI. Speculate the pump never hits 1000 psi since the ram is just retracting and isn't under much load (gravity assists initially moving the ram and then once coach on its own weight, shouldn't require much force to retract the ram). Since the pumps are slightly different, I'm afraid that swapping the relief valves may foul the new pump.

This manual is a good one for knowing how to work on the pump assembly.
http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Servmanl/6/6A5R3.PDF

Cheers, Doug
__________________
Doug W.
Encinitas CA
2004 M380
Ex-PT36
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-01-2019
DW SD DW SD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Encinitas
Posts: 1,519
Default

Here's a few photos of the new pump with old motor and the hydraulic adapters installed. I also attached photos of the pumps side by side and the new pump outlets vs. the old pump outlet (90 with JIC-4 male).

The goal here is saving $500 against replacing the entire assembly sold by BIGFOOT. I might be guilty of penny-wise and pound-foolishness. We'll see.
I paid $120 for the pump module from DB electric. Where BIGFOOT sells the entire assembly for $600+.
cheers,
Doug
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	rIemyK2%Q5KEwiSnqAcABg.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	193.2 KB
ID:	62224   Click image for larger version

Name:	vUZT%MNVSWKMk40lI63SkQ.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	191.3 KB
ID:	62225   Click image for larger version

Name:	2YhAk6FqTIqWqDuNGwjTwA.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	189.2 KB
ID:	62226   Click image for larger version

Name:	NLzNYHYrQKK8DyCKvxR46g.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	203.7 KB
ID:	62227  
__________________
Doug W.
Encinitas CA
2004 M380
Ex-PT36
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-01-2019
Doc&Linda's Avatar
Doc&Linda Doc&Linda is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Bonne Terre
Posts: 487
Default

The ground on the back jacks, in the bay, are not very good. You need to reground them to the bus frame. Also, the rear jacks probably are not heavy enough to lift the coach. Should have been HWH jacks as a better choice. That being said, I can get more lift out of mine by doing them manually, letting them cool, and doing it again.
__________________
Doc&Linda
M380 2004
Full-Timing
Missouri
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-01-2019
AEmedic AEmedic is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Boise
Posts: 282
Default

I hope your effort pays off!

I am going to need to work on my DS front, While I was under there today, I realized that it was leaking...
__________________
Chris Rogers
Boise, Idaho
2004 M380 DS
Jeep TJ Toad - LS 5.3 swap in process
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-01-2019
DW SD DW SD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Encinitas
Posts: 1,519
Default

Hi Guys,
Well good news bad news... after swapping just the hydraulic pump (using the same motor and solenoids) it operates exactly the same as before. The ram extends, hits the ground, does some lifting during the leveling sequence but then stops lifting. At that point, the right rear pump runs (I hear the motor) until the system times out.
The good news is the new pump assembly price is now cut in 1/3rd for a failed corner or a 1/6th if your motor works.

The bad news is I still have an issue. Earlier today, I had concluded that I have a bad seal in my ram.

As you point out, mine are grounded to the chassis through the heavy mounting hardware. It is a hokey setup, though, since it requires the washer of the mounting hardware to make contact in the right place on one of the control solenoid mounting pad and the mounting hardware contacts the bay sheet metal edge. Outside, where contact is greatest the bay sheet metal is primed or powder coated. The original white primer coating is still very much intact under the mounting hardware washer. Then again, the motors only have 12 or 14 gauge leads, and don't draw that much current (up to 40 amps / corner).

Lance,
Do you think if there is a voltage drop, the motor would still spin, but not generate enough pressure to lift? It seems like you think so based on your use of manual mode and comments about adding a separate ground. I use manual mode too, although initially mine worked (just last Summer) in Auto mode reliably.
I know my batteries are in perfect shape. And the wiring shows zero corrosion.
I was working alone, so I could not run the motor and measure the voltage at the solenoids, which would be a next step.

I guess I also need to buy a JIC-4 tee adapter so I can attach my new hydraulic gauge and check the pressure when it stops lifting.

Bigfoot sells a cylinder rebuild kit. I do know in talking to their techs that a bad seal in the ram itself could cause my symptom.
https://www.shop.thebigfootleveler.c...Kit-M54011.htm

That's it for now.
Doug
__________________
Doug W.
Encinitas CA
2004 M380
Ex-PT36
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-03-2019
DW SD DW SD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Encinitas
Posts: 1,519
Default

I am optimistic that I now have things fixed. I now believe the problem might be electrical vs. the pump all along.

Today, I installed a secondary ground, 4 AWG. I installed a rivnut in to a nearby chassis truss tube and wired to the base of the extend solenoid. I did notice the pitch of the right rear motor was a bit higher than what I remember (spinning faster). But, the system did level on its own.

I noticed that the right rear corner, where I also changed out the pump, if I watched closely would lift and then drop about 1" a second after the controller stopped the pump, which happened more than once during the leveling cycle. I'm wondering if there is still air trapped within that cylinder. I know some fluid leaked out of the hose when I removed the pump, so I'd expect it had introduced some air.

I had time to do one quick bleed cycle (full extend and then retract), but don't know the results, yet. Manual in one place says leave it for 15 minutes at full extend and elsewhere I read 2 hours. I had time for 10 minutes and not to test.

I am going to add one more secondary ground for the left rear HPU (motor and pump) and just daisy chain it off what I just added.

Lance - thank you for the suggestion! I had initially discounted the additional ground since this has been in place for 15 years without.

Doug
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	58128254868__CE6E25A8-8E61-40C1-B0E9-14F1F5E64108.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	174.6 KB
ID:	62290  
__________________
Doug W.
Encinitas CA
2004 M380
Ex-PT36
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bigfoot Jack Motor Removal and Repair DonB M380 (Unique Issues) 3 02-25-2017 10:16 PM
BigFoot 15x15x1.5 Jack Pads rshrimp General 11 01-29-2017 10:12 PM
bigfoot leveling wireing and plumbing BajaChuck M380 (Unique Issues) 34 11-30-2015 06:29 PM
Bigfoot Leveling Jack Brent M380 (Unique Issues) 1 05-11-2011 08:59 PM
Pumps for BigFoot Levelers marvjeanm380 M380 (Unique Issues) 8 11-13-2010 12:01 PM

Web Search:

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.